Fitness Fixes Everything (and its simple) @higherupwellness

Episode 106 · Mar 26, 2026 · 1h 56m

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About this episode

In this powerful podcast episode, Michael Smoak breaks down why most people fail at fitness and why "extreme ownership" is the only way to reclaim your agency. From the simple science of physical transformation to the emotional lessons learned from his father’s final days, Michael challenges the narrative that life has to be an endless struggle. If you’ve been feeling stuck in your habits, overwhelmed by overcomplicated fitness advice, or disconnected from your purpose, this conversation is your wake-up call. In this video, we discuss: Why "Compliance is the Science" in fitness. Busting Fitness Myths. How to build a "stack of undeniable proof" for real confidence. The true cost of personal ascension and the necessity of tension. A moving tribute to legacy and the value of time. Kassidy Warren https://www.instagram.com/kassidy.warren https://www.linkedin.com/in/kassidywarren Michael Smoak https://www.instagram.com/higherupwellness/ https://www.youtube.com/@higherupwellness https://open.spotify.com/show/1gVshwQYETZFObSi1C Watch #ForYourOwnGood on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KassidyWarren Keywords: Michael Smoak, fitness motivation, extreme ownership, mindset shift, personal development, weight loss tips, discipline over motivation, James Clear, Atomic Habits, identity shift, workout consistency, men's mental health, grief and growth, legacy, life lessons, self improvement, how to build confidence, productivity systems, health and wellness, body transformation, muscle building, nutrition science, compliance is the science, spiritual fulfillment, success tips, kassidy warren podcast

Key moments

0:02:31 “he was the first guy I had ever seen in the space, this was 2016, saying,...”
0:03:22 “if you want to, skip breakfast because it actually makes hitting that calorie goal easier.”
0:10:06 “I I always try to channel my audience when I'm with the guest.”
0:20:56 “if you do, you should go compete cuz you can build a hell of a career.”
0:29:20 “people are in hard hard positions all the time that maybe they didn't find themselves in,...”
0:31:01 “I signed up for that never having run more than 5 miles, and I went, "Oh...”
0:40:15 “99% of people legitimately 99% of people will never run a marathon.”
0:46:58 “Cuz he saw what it did to my grandparents when they stopped working.”

Read the full transcript

Auto-generated from the episode captions; may contain small errors.

0:00:00If you don't have 10 minutes for your

0:00:00life, you don't have a life. Just drop

0:00:02an hour of doom scrolling. I view

0:00:04fitness and health as hygiene. It's in

0:00:06the same bucket as showering or brushing

0:00:08my teeth. People view fitness as like a

0:00:10hobby. It's not stamp [music]

0:00:11collecting. It's something you do

0:00:13because you're supposed to. It isn't

0:00:14easy, but it is simple. Don't

0:00:16overcomplicate it.

0:00:16>> What do most people overcomplicate about

0:00:18fitness? Compliance is the science.

0:00:20[music] You will see the best results in

0:00:21what you like and can stick to long

0:00:22term. Doesn't matter if that's one

0:00:24workout a week [music] or six. It's not

0:00:25your genetics, it's not your insulin

0:00:27resistance, and it's not your hormones.

0:00:29It's your elbow.

0:00:30Every time your elbow bends, your

0:00:31[ __ ] mouth opens. That's why you're

0:00:33overweight. Your new life is going to

0:00:34cost [music] you your old life. Who was

0:00:36old Mike and who is new Mike?

0:00:38>> If I want to do what I say I want to do,

0:00:40prior versions of me can't come with me.

0:00:43You know, when my dad got sick, that

0:00:44there was a part of me that I feel

0:00:46[music] had to die if I was going to

0:00:48make it through that and not be bitter,

0:00:50broken, resentful, angry. [music] How do

0:00:52you spell love? T I M E. That was super

0:00:55important

0:00:56to my old man. Tell me about your dad.

0:00:58He was truly truly a [music] special

0:01:00guy. A week before he died, his two best

0:01:03friends, Jeff and Brian, came [music] to

0:01:04see him. He grabs their hand and says,

0:01:08"Thanks for everything, but most

0:01:10importantly, thank you for your time."

0:01:14Mike, thanks for being here, dude. Dude,

0:01:16thank you for having me. I'm glad we met

0:01:17and got to work it out. I appreciate you

0:01:19giving me some of your time. Watching

0:01:20your

0:01:21social media rise over the last couple

0:01:23of years has been pretty crazy.

0:01:26Over a million followers on TikTok,

0:01:27approaching a million on Instagram, and

0:01:30somehow you're one of the most relatable

0:01:31guys on the internet. And it all

0:01:33started, I think, with fitness, right?

0:01:35So, that's where I want to start today.

0:01:37Yeah. And you have a you have your

0:01:38tagline. Your famous quote, right? Yeah.

0:01:41It isn't easy, but it is simple. Don't

0:01:43overcomplicate it.

0:01:43>> And so, what do most people

0:01:44overcomplicate about fitness?

0:01:46Besides everything?

0:01:48I guess we can go into detail on that.

0:01:49For me,

0:01:51that that phrase was born by accident. I

0:01:53I made a couple of videos where I just

0:01:55said stop overcomplicating this stuff.

0:01:57It's not necessarily easy to do, but the

0:01:59principles are simple to understand. And

0:02:01people started organically pushing

0:02:02saying, "I think you've got a tagline

0:02:03there." And so, I just put it together,

0:02:05but

0:02:06what I what I realized was I had spent a

0:02:08lot of my life overweight.

0:02:10And I got to a point in college where I

0:02:12was about 60 lb overweight because I

0:02:13kept eating like I was playing two

0:02:15sports in high school, but I wasn't. And

0:02:17I was drinking like it was a big league

0:02:18sport. So, with that came a 50 to 60 lb

0:02:21weight gain over the course of probably

0:02:24a year. So, it happened pretty quick.

0:02:26And it doesn't feel quick cuz it's just

0:02:284 or 5 lb a month. And then you look up

0:02:30and you go, "Holy [ __ ] I look different

0:02:31and none of my clothes fit."

0:02:33And I did the thing, which is, "Let me

0:02:36go to the gym 5 or 6 days a week. Let me

0:02:37do the cardio cuz that's somehow super

0:02:39important. Let me eat the chicken, rice,

0:02:41and broccoli."

0:02:42And it was up 10 lb, down 10 lb, down 15

0:02:45lb, up 5 lb. And then I finally got to

0:02:47this point where I could stick to it,

0:02:48but was a bit miserable.

0:02:50And

0:02:51I was just stuck at 15 lb down. And it

0:02:53was at this point, and I always give him

0:02:54credit when this conversation comes up,

0:02:57that I found a creator named Gregor

0:02:58Gallagher, Kinobody.

0:03:00And he was the first guy I had ever seen

0:03:02in the space, this was 2016, saying,

0:03:04"Hey, actually, you don't need to go to

0:03:06the gym 5 or 6 days a week." To which I

0:03:08said, "Really?

0:03:09You don't actually need to eat chicken,

0:03:11rice, and broccoli. Amazing. You don't

0:03:13actually need to eat 5 or 6 days meals a

0:03:14day to keep your metabolism firing." All

0:03:17the things I hated, he was telling me I

0:03:18didn't have to do. And so, I went,

0:03:20"Okay, I'll listen cuz I'm frustrated.

0:03:22I'm still overweight. I'm not happy with

0:03:23where I'm at." And it was there that he

0:03:25explained through his content,

0:03:28"Just train really hard, really focused,

0:03:30three times a week.

0:03:31Walk 10,000 steps a day.

0:03:33Hit your protein goal. And if you want

0:03:35to, skip breakfast because it actually

0:03:37makes hitting that calorie goal easier.

0:03:38And by the way, all that really matters

0:03:40is adequate protein, calories, and

0:03:42quality food. Stop making this so so

0:03:44difficult. Stop making food choice so

0:03:46difficult." And he was displaying how he

0:03:48would go out and have steak and potatoes

0:03:49and maybe a glass of wine. And I was

0:03:51like,

0:03:52"You can live your life and be in really

0:03:53great shape. The dude's shredded. Let me

0:03:55try." At this point, I was so

0:03:56frustrated. I said, "Let me try it. What

0:03:58do I have to lose?"

0:03:59And so, I did the three-day workout

0:04:00split. I only walked, no running, no

0:04:02cardio, no Stairmaster. I focused more

0:04:04on my protein

0:04:06and stopped eating boring, bland foods.

0:04:08And sure enough, the last 50 lb came off

0:04:10over the course of 9 months, and I was

0:04:12the strongest I'd ever been.

0:04:14And I lived that way for years.

0:04:16And so, when you ask me what people

0:04:17overcomplicate, there's this idea

0:04:21that in order to get in great shape, you

0:04:22have to sacrifice something great. I

0:04:24think that the bodybuilders of the world

0:04:26like to gatekeep their fitness cuz they

0:04:28want you to believe it was really hard

0:04:30to obtain. Cuz then that gives it status

0:04:32and importance.

0:04:33I don't believe that. I think that

0:04:34that's silly, and I think you're

0:04:35depriving people of something that can

0:04:37be really, really impactful for their

0:04:38lives.

0:04:39So, when it comes to how you simplify

0:04:40fitness,

0:04:42compliance is the science. It's one of

0:04:44my favorite quotes from Dr. Stan

0:04:45Efferding. You will see the best results

0:04:47in what you like and can stick to long

0:04:48term. Doesn't matter if that's one

0:04:50workout a week or six. If you set a

0:04:52six-day training split and you do it 30%

0:04:54of the time, you're better off doing a

0:04:55three-day split 100% of the time.

0:04:57Because you over time, that will

0:04:59compound. That effort will compound,

0:05:00just like money in the bank or the stock

0:05:02market.

0:05:03So, for me, three lifts a week, and for

0:05:05most people, three lifts a week,

0:05:07focusing on protein and just trying to

0:05:08get strong

0:05:10every single week, a little bit

0:05:11stronger, and walking. If you just did

0:05:13those four things,

0:05:14in the moment, seems insignificant, but

0:05:16compounded over 6 months to a year, you

0:05:18would totally transform. So, people need

0:05:20to stop realizing or stop believing

0:05:23the narrative that life has to be hard

0:05:25for you to be in great shape. That's

0:05:26what they're overcomplicating. And so,

0:05:28let's simplify it a little bit more,

0:05:29right? Sure. What are the things

0:05:31specifically? Calorie deficit, right?

0:05:33>> Yeah. And then you said get a little bit

0:05:35stronger

0:05:37each and every time. What does that

0:05:37actually look like?

0:05:38>> This is the one of the biggest things

0:05:40that people mess up when it comes to

0:05:41exercise. So, there's exercise, and then

0:05:44there's training. Exercise is I'm going

0:05:46to go in and get really sweaty.

0:05:48And then training is this is a focused

0:05:49plan.

0:05:50So, if we drill down on this a bit more,

0:05:53get a bit stronger is scientifically

0:05:56displayed as the principle of

0:05:57progressive overload. Increasing the

0:05:59stimulus over time. And most people

0:06:01don't even know that this exists, but

0:06:02when you think about it, you go, "Oh,

0:06:04that does make sense." And this is one

0:06:06of my barometers for fitness.

0:06:08If I have to think about it for more

0:06:10than 30 seconds to make it make sense,

0:06:12I'm not going to do it. Cuz it's

0:06:13overcomplicating. It just is.

0:06:15But it makes sense if I tell somebody,

0:06:17"Well, if you want the muscle to grow,

0:06:18you kind of need to give it a reason to

0:06:19grow."

0:06:20And they go, "Oh, yeah, that does make

0:06:22sense."

0:06:23So, what that looks like practically is

0:06:25if we were to lay out a full training

0:06:26program for people right now,

0:06:28what I did was basically a workout A,

0:06:30workout B, workout A. Monday, Wednesday,

0:06:33Friday.

0:06:34And workout A was the same. Every time

0:06:36it was A, it was A. Every time it was B,

0:06:38it was B. It was typically a pushing

0:06:40movement, so a press of some sort, a

0:06:42pulling movement, a row, a lat pulldown,

0:06:45and a leg movement, a squat, leg

0:06:47extension, leg curl together, hack

0:06:48squat, Bulgarians, what have you.

0:06:51Whatever blows your hair back. And then

0:06:52maybe throw in an accessory. So, a

0:06:54deltoid accessory, bicep, tricep, abs,

0:06:57calves. Nobody's really doing those.

0:07:00But pick an accessory, a part of the

0:07:01body you want to develop or bring up.

0:07:03And rinse and repeat that process. So,

0:07:04if on Monday, I workout A is

0:07:07bench, squat, deadlift,

0:07:09and I do three sets of five reps for

0:07:11bench, squat, deadlifts at 100 lb for

0:07:15ease of example. Obviously, those are

0:07:16going to be different weights.

0:07:18Then the next time I do workout A, the

0:07:20goal is to do three sets of six or three

0:07:22sets of five at 105.

0:07:24And over time,

0:07:26if you put 65 lb on your bench, squat,

0:07:29and deadlift, you're going to have a

0:07:30bigger body because that's how muscle

0:07:31muscle tissue responds. It's by

0:07:33increasing the stress over time, causing

0:07:36adaptation.

0:07:37So, that paired with walking, adequate

0:07:39movement,

0:07:40adequate protein, and then the only

0:07:42thing that causes fat loss, which

0:07:43somehow this sparks debate on the

0:07:45internet every time I say it,

0:07:47eating less calories than you burn

0:07:49in a day. Yep. Pair those four things,

0:07:52rinse and repeat for 6 months,

0:07:54and you'll look totally different. But

0:07:55you know, dude, that's the part

0:07:58that I think people have the hardest

0:07:59time with. And it's unfortunate.

0:08:01Hormozi has this great quote, "90% of

0:08:03success can be boiled down to doing the

0:08:05obvious thing for an extraordinary

0:08:06period of time without convincing

0:08:08yourself you're smarter than you are."

0:08:10Everybody kind of knows that the obvious

0:08:12thing would be to move a little bit

0:08:13more, eat a little bit less, and train

0:08:15hard.

0:08:16But some people feel they're so far gone

0:08:18that they don't they can't even

0:08:19conceptualize a goal horizon that's 6

0:08:21months to a year out. That feels

0:08:22hopeless.

0:08:24So, what I suggest people do is set the

0:08:26goal, set your sights on the goal

0:08:27clearly, and then let it go. I want to

0:08:29have abs. I want to be 10% body fat. I

0:08:31want to be 185 lb. Whatever. You know

0:08:33where you're aiming, let it go, and then

0:08:35relentlessly build the systems to get

0:08:37you there and become addicted to

0:08:38complying with the systems. It's like

0:08:40James Clear says, "We don't rise to the

0:08:42level of our goals, we fall to the level

0:08:43of our systems."

0:08:44So, for me, physical training was all

0:08:46about what is the minimum effective dose

0:08:48across the board in my training and

0:08:50nutrition and recovery that I know I can

0:08:53comply with so that that effort will

0:08:54compound over time, no matter how

0:08:56seemingly small in the moment it might

0:08:57be. That's right.

0:08:59I love this. You basically laid out my

0:09:01and my wife's journey over the last 2

0:09:03years.

0:09:04We simplified everything.

0:09:06We did track our macros. Like we focused

0:09:08on protein, obviously.

0:09:10And I went from doing berries and

0:09:12OrangeTheory and being exhausted and

0:09:14sweaty and feeling like I did something.

0:09:17And at the end of those classes, my wife

0:09:18and I looking at each other like,

0:09:20"Do we look any different?"

0:09:22"I feel exhausted."

0:09:23>> fitness dilemma, yeah.

0:09:24>> Yeah, exactly. And I thought I was doing

0:09:26something.

0:09:27And then rediscovered weights,

0:09:29progressive overload, hypertrophy,

0:09:31time under tension, tempo, eating more

0:09:34than I ever thought that I needed to,

0:09:36right? Like the amount of food that I

0:09:37eat now to go build versus a cut is

0:09:39crazy. That's a big one, dude. I see a

0:09:41lot of guys and gals like, "Oh, my

0:09:43calorie deficit for a 180 lb, 6-ft male,

0:09:46I'm eating 1,400 calories a day." Why

0:09:48are you doing that?

0:09:49>> need to do that.

0:09:49>> No wonder you can't lose weight because

0:09:51you eat that way. You eat like an

0:09:5211-year-old boy for 10 days, wonder why

0:09:55you're starving, then you binge, and you

0:09:56reset, and then you just go up and down,

0:09:58and up and down, and up and down. That's

0:09:59right. Then I tell that guy, you should

0:10:01probably eat like 2,200, and he goes,

0:10:03"No way." I go, "All right, man. Well, I

0:10:05tried to help you. You'll figure it

0:10:06out." All right. And so, I I always try

0:10:08to channel my audience when I'm with the

0:10:10guest. And so, you're you're saying all

0:10:12these simple things, go lift heavy.

0:10:14One of the things that I know is people

0:10:16actually don't know what lifting heavy

0:10:18or training to failure is, and that's

0:10:20one of the secrets of

0:10:22uh hypertrophy and progressive overload,

0:10:23but I want to dig into the limiting

0:10:26beliefs or the excuses that people come

0:10:27up with, and see if you can debunk or uh

0:10:30come up with counter arguments against

0:10:31them. Let's roll. I don't have time to

0:10:34work out. Oh, that's my favorite one.

0:10:36That's my absolute favorite one. Because

0:10:38it's the biggest cope of any excuse you

0:10:40could possibly give me.

0:10:42It's sort of like

0:10:44I heard Tony Robbins say once when it

0:10:45came to meditation that he only takes 10

0:10:47minutes in the morning to do something.

0:10:49He was like, "If you don't have 10

0:10:49minutes for your life, you don't have a

0:10:50life."

0:10:51And I view this the same way with

0:10:53training.

0:10:54So, my workouts, even now, I'm on

0:10:55marathon prep, so it's a little bit

0:10:57different, but my strength training is

0:10:58the same.

0:10:59So, if the goal was maximizing my

0:11:01physique, I would not be training for a

0:11:03marathon. It's just training specific

0:11:04goals right now. My baseline, three

0:11:06lifts a week, walking, protein, will

0:11:09never change.

0:11:10That takes me legitimately, the training

0:11:12takes me

0:11:14if I'm really dragging ass in the gym,

0:11:1660 minutes.

0:11:17Like really taking my time.

0:11:19And if I want to bear it down even more,

0:11:20I could do it in like 41. I've I've

0:11:22tried this. 38 to 41 minutes, I can get

0:11:24a killer workout.

0:11:25So, if you don't have 3 hours a week, a

0:11:27week,

0:11:2812 hours a month,

0:11:30like just drop an hour of doom

0:11:32scrolling. I promise you there's an hour

0:11:34of doom scrolling in there.

0:11:35So, you do absolutely have time. The The

0:11:37total commitment

0:11:38I say conservatively is 3 hours a week

0:11:40in the gym,

0:11:417 hours a week walking.

0:11:43And then maybe call it

0:11:45if you want to I don't even do meal

0:11:46prep, but if you want to do prepping

0:11:48your food for the week,

0:11:493 hours on Sunday. That's less than the

0:11:52equivalent effort of a part-time job.

0:11:54And if it matters to you, you will make

0:11:55time. I'm sorry, but it is that simple.

0:11:57I've seen what you eat, and I think it's

0:11:58pretty funny cuz not not funny, but

0:12:01the way that my wife and I got to where

0:12:02we are is whole food, macro tracking, no

0:12:06salt, no added nothing. And then I see

0:12:09you eat, you know, fish fillet

0:12:10sandwiches.

0:12:11>> [laughter]

0:12:13>> And the the rotisserie chicken mixed

0:12:15with like Costco cocktail shrimp.

0:12:17>> [ __ ] yeah.

0:12:18>> Yeah, but I I think

0:12:20the perfectionism that people expect,

0:12:22for some people they need it to even be

0:12:25able to have a framework or a structure

0:12:26to get there. I get that, but also

0:12:29you don't need to be perfect every

0:12:30single day all all the time, right?

0:12:33Yeah, well, I think practical is

0:12:35optimal, and people are always chasing

0:12:36optimal, and then they lose out on

0:12:38what's practical, thereby they cannot be

0:12:40optimal. And I think that you have to

0:12:41exist on both ends of the spectrum to be

0:12:44able to swing back to the middle. So, at

0:12:46one point I was tracking and weighing

0:12:48every single thing I ate. I was not

0:12:50eating out. I swung to the opposite end

0:12:53of the spectrum from being a fat drunk

0:12:55in college to obsessed about what I was

0:12:58eating. And then I realized I was a

0:12:59little bit over obsessed, and it was

0:13:00maybe not I was thereby compromising my

0:13:02social and mental health for my physical

0:13:04health, and that was not health.

0:13:06And so, that this is also the beauty,

0:13:07and maybe you guys are experiencing this

0:13:09now,

0:13:10when you go deep on tracking and

0:13:12weighing and really really hard on your

0:13:14diet, you have the luxury of kind of

0:13:15being able to do it in your head. Yep.

0:13:17Like I can ballpark if you put a plate

0:13:18of food in front of me right now, I

0:13:20could within 10% tell you the caloric

0:13:22value of that food. And I could eat a

0:13:24higher calorie thing like a fish fillet,

0:13:26best fast food fish sandwich, or fast

0:13:27food sandwich period, across the board.

0:13:29I'll die on that hill.

0:13:30>> [laughter]

0:13:31>> And know, that's 360 calories. It's not

0:13:33that bad. I'll just I'll borrow some

0:13:35calories from this evening, have that

0:13:36right now, and just have a protein dense

0:13:37dinner. Yep. So, if I eat kind of call

0:13:40it shitty, I don't even like saying

0:13:41that, but more processed, lower protein

0:13:43earlier in the day, I know dinner's

0:13:44going to be a lighter protein dense

0:13:46meal. If I eat lighter in the day, I can

0:13:48have a heavier,

0:13:50more of a free meal later in the day.

0:13:52It's just this awareness of where my

0:13:53calories are at any given time that you

0:13:55get through tracking.

0:13:56All right, next uh limiting belief.

0:13:59My genetics

0:14:00don't allow me to get fit.

0:14:01>> I'm an ectomorph. I'm an endomorph. No,

0:14:04you're just skinny or overweight. It's

0:14:06like it's the same it's the same dilemma

0:14:07as the kid who tells me,

0:14:09"I'm eating so much, and I can't gain

0:14:10weight." I go, "Okay, great. Track

0:14:11everything you put in your mouth, and

0:14:13come back to me." Not once, and I mean

0:14:15not once, has that ever broken 2,200

0:14:18calories in a day. Yep. It's like, "All

0:14:19right, brother, we're going to add a

0:14:20gallon of milk to that over the course

0:14:22of a day cuz you're not eating enough."

0:14:23Yep.

0:14:24Genetics, disease,

0:14:28they all play a role. Right? They all

0:14:30influence your ability

0:14:32to follow the rules of the game, but

0:14:34they do not change the rules of the

0:14:35game.

0:14:36It's like I caught a lot of heat last

0:14:38year from the PCOS community

0:14:40because I made a very short video that

0:14:42was very hyperbolic that said something

0:14:43to the effect of,

0:14:46"This is a friendly reminder. It's not

0:14:47your genetics, it's not your insulin

0:14:48resistance, and it's not your hormones.

0:14:50It's your elbow.

0:14:52Every time your elbow bends, your

0:14:53[ __ ] mouth opens. That's why you're

0:14:54overweight." And that's all I said,

0:14:56video cut, and that was

0:14:59started a shitstorm. I still get

0:15:00comments about that to this day. My wife

0:15:02is laughing in the background cuz she

0:15:03wanted me to ask you about that

0:15:04specifically, isn't it? [laughter] Well,

0:15:05we can dive into it.

0:15:07Um

0:15:08but it's true. It doesn't It doesn't

0:15:09mean I don't empathize with the fact

0:15:11that those things do play a role, and I

0:15:13said that in the video.

0:15:15Those things do impact the rules of the

0:15:17game, but they do not change the rules.

0:15:19That your intake is going to dictate how

0:15:22much you weigh.

0:15:23That simply put, there are people with

0:15:25higher basal metabolic rates who burn a

0:15:26lot of calories. There are people with

0:15:28lower who burn less calories. But once

0:15:30you know the levers you can pull, like

0:15:32Lane Norton talks about levers,

0:15:34uh points of leverage inside of your fat

0:15:37loss journey. Like for me, a lever is

0:15:38steps. If I want to burn more calories,

0:15:40I'm going to walk more. Cuz if I hit 20K

0:15:42steps in a day, I can within reason eat

0:15:44whatever I want cuz my burn is so high.

0:15:47Another lever is protein cuz it keeps me

0:15:49full.

0:15:50So, my genetics

0:15:52is understandable, but for most case

0:15:55most people don't even know what their

0:15:56genetics are. So, it's like, "Define

0:15:58that for me."

0:15:59They're like, "I don't know. I just like

0:16:00I just get fat when I eat." It's like,

0:16:01"Yeah, cuz you had a 600 calorie coffee

0:16:03for breakfast."

0:16:03>> Yep. Raise your awareness. Fitness is

0:16:05not about suffering, it's about raising

0:16:07your awareness to the behaviors that

0:16:09might be keeping you stuck, as is most

0:16:10things in life. Yeah, I I put another

0:16:12way, like you have to be really honest

0:16:14with yourself. Yeah. About your own

0:16:15fears, what's holding you back, why

0:16:17you're making the decisions, what

0:16:18stories you've been told your whole

0:16:20life. Like the other part of genetics

0:16:21is, oh, it it runs in my family, right?

0:16:24Or Nobody runs in your family. That's

0:16:25why you're all fat.

0:16:28There we go.

0:16:29So,

0:16:30uh but I I really think so the like you

0:16:33said, there is a genetics play. Yeah.

0:16:37Through my journey of content creation

0:16:39and entrepreneurship,

0:16:41fitness, the thing that I find the most

0:16:43is people are afraid to confront the

0:16:46truth about themselves.

0:16:47And fitness is foundational, and it's

0:16:50scary to think about that far off goal,

0:16:53and what it means to have to go to the

0:16:55gym every day or 3 days a week or

0:16:57whatever, right? You're simplifying it

0:16:58and saying it doesn't have to be

0:16:59suffering, but I think people look to

0:17:01anything they can to justify their

0:17:04current existence. Yeah, because change

0:17:06is uncomfortable, and that's what this

0:17:07boils down to. It's a reframe and an

0:17:10understanding of what drives change. So,

0:17:11the first thing I would say is I would

0:17:13challenge people to reframe how they

0:17:14view fitness.

0:17:16I view fitness and health as hygiene.

0:17:19It's in the same bucket as showering or

0:17:21brushing my teeth.

0:17:22I do those when I'm tired. I do those

0:17:24when I don't feel like I don't even I

0:17:25just do it. I don't even think about it.

0:17:27But people view fitness as like a hobby,

0:17:30which just isn't true. Taking care of

0:17:31your body isn't something that you do

0:17:33for fun. It's not stamp collecting. It's

0:17:35something you do because you're supposed

0:17:37to. Because now we live in a world where

0:17:38that's not built into our days. 200

0:17:41years ago, you were bailing hay and

0:17:43hoeing up ground to plant seeds. Like

0:17:45you were doing things that kept the body

0:17:47moving, and now we have to go to a place

0:17:48to simulate foundational human movement.

0:17:50>> Yep. So, it's hygiene. So, the root of

0:17:53this discomfort I think is that people

0:17:55have to change, and that scares people.

0:17:57Like we learn in sales, so I went to

0:17:59college for sales, was in sales for 4

0:18:00years, no pain, no sale.

0:18:03Because if they're in pain in their

0:18:04current state, they will make a change.

0:18:06And it's the same thing with people's

0:18:08health. Change is uncomfortable,

0:18:10but if people are overweight, they're

0:18:11sick, they're chronically ill because of

0:18:13their lifestyle choices, that's also

0:18:14uncomfortable.

0:18:16And we will not change until the pain of

0:18:18staying the same

0:18:19overrides the pain of changing because

0:18:21both are uncomfortable. Because the

0:18:22unfamiliar is uncomfortable. That's

0:18:24where Chris Williamson

0:18:26beautifully explains the region beta

0:18:27paradox. Most people would be better off

0:18:30Do you know what the region beta paradox

0:18:31is? Tell me. So, the example he gives is

0:18:35you've got two situations.

0:18:37In one situation, you're less than a

0:18:39mile away from the destination, so you

0:18:41walk. In the other situation, you're

0:18:43more than a mile, so you drive. Yep. So,

0:18:45paradoxically, you get to the place

0:18:48that's further away faster because you

0:18:50drove instead of walked there. Cuz I can

0:18:51drive 1.3 miles faster than I can walk

0:18:530.9 miles.

0:18:55Unless I'm Usain Bolt. Even then.

0:18:57So, the theory is you'd be better off

0:19:00in a worse situation because that would

0:19:03drive change.

0:19:04So, I tell people to look for the part

0:19:06of your life that you just You know

0:19:08what's a big one? The thing that really

0:19:09did it for me,

0:19:11I have a moment where I heard someone

0:19:12say something, but taking a picture of

0:19:14myself with my shirt off in the mirror

0:19:16when I was unhappy with my body, and I

0:19:17had to look at it and go, oh, [ __ ]

0:19:19that's what people see.

0:19:21That's brutal. That's being honest with

0:19:23yourself.

0:19:24And that was a way for me to create a

0:19:26catalyst of change. It was rooted in a

0:19:28bit of shame, which I think is okay. You

0:19:31know, shame is an emotion that our

0:19:32society tells us to bury and suppress,

0:19:33and love yourself anyway. Well,

0:19:35[ __ ]

0:19:36Shame is an emotion, and emotions are

0:19:38messengers. They're there for a reason.

0:19:40Anxiety, depression, fear, excitement,

0:19:42happiness. It is a message. And when you

0:19:45try to bury the message that your body

0:19:46is trying to send to you, it comes

0:19:48around and runs the show the show

0:19:50subconsciously. Suppression of

0:19:51expression leads to depression. So, the

0:19:54emotions you're trying to bury are going

0:19:55to bury you.

0:19:57And so, listen to the shame. Look at the

0:19:58photo. And then figure out how to make a

0:20:00change from there. That's the whole

0:20:02thing. Yeah, comparison is a thief of

0:20:03joy is another common one.

0:20:05I compare myself to people all the time

0:20:06without putting the judgment, but

0:20:09analyzing what do I really want? What do

0:20:11I truly want? How do I get there? What

0:20:14is Michael Smoke doing? What is Chris

0:20:15Williamson doing? What is What is Steven

0:20:17Bartlett doing? Who are Dan Martell?

0:20:19What are these people doing that I'm not

0:20:21that I don't understand yet?

0:20:22>> Yeah. I don't I don't need to be

0:20:24shameful

0:20:25all the time. But, I understand what

0:20:27you're saying because it ends up your

0:20:28core desire is coming up. Correct.

0:20:30>> And there's a incongruency between where

0:20:33you're at and the core desire of what

0:20:35you want. That's it.

0:20:36>> Yes. And then your ability to be honest

0:20:38with yourself and take action is really

0:20:40how you create change. And that's why

0:20:41putting yourself in rooms where it's

0:20:43uncomfortable, putting yourself in a

0:20:44gym, a bodybuilding gym versus a

0:20:48water aerobics class at the Y with

0:20:5075-year-olds.

0:20:51>> Yeah. Which you could probably learn

0:20:52something from them, but if you want to

0:20:54look different, be different, feel

0:20:56different, put yourself in a room with

0:20:57people that look, feel, and are

0:20:59different and where you want to be.

0:21:01Yeah, the shame shouldn't be the thing

0:21:02that continuously drives you, but it's a

0:21:03great catalyst to start the fire.

0:21:05>> That's right. That's all. All right, I

0:21:06want to do a couple more uh and then

0:21:08we'll then we'll move on. A couple more

0:21:09limiting beliefs. This is for women

0:21:11mainly. I don't want to get bulky.

0:21:13>> [laughter]

0:21:14>> Cassidy's going to make me out to be a

0:21:15misogynist again. Here we go. Just when

0:21:18I got over being canceled, we're getting

0:21:19right back into it.

0:21:20>> Although, I do see a lot of a lot of men

0:21:21say this, I think

0:21:23like or they don't believe they can do

0:21:24it, but I don't want to get bulky.

0:21:27All right. I've been trying for 10 years

0:21:30and it hasn't happened yet. So, like if

0:21:32you do, you should go compete cuz you

0:21:34can build a hell of a career. You can be

0:21:35the next Cbum.

0:21:36Or whatever the female equivalent of

0:21:37that is.

0:21:39So, cuz I've had dudes tell me that too.

0:21:41Oh, I don't really want to get huge.

0:21:42It's like don't worry, pal. You won't.

0:21:44Especially with that mentality. You're

0:21:46not ever going to train hard enough to

0:21:47get bulky. It would take decades. And

0:21:51this is such a funny thing like

0:21:53I see all these female fitness

0:21:55influencers that lift heavy and lift

0:21:57hard and they have like beautiful

0:21:58feminine physiques. Mhm.

0:22:00Why? Because they don't have the

0:22:01testosterone to create a male look. Now,

0:22:03some do. Some have genetically higher

0:22:05test than others.

0:22:06And that's just a genetic outlier thing.

0:22:08But, for most women, all you are going

0:22:11to do by lifting is accentuate the parts

0:22:12of the feminine physique that you want

0:22:14to accentuate. So, psychologically, I

0:22:16think Gregor Gallagher's gotten into

0:22:18this. There are these

0:22:19these appeals we have as men and women

0:22:21psychologically to a physique that in in

0:22:24women or in men, for example, dictate a

0:22:26sign of of protection and provision in

0:22:28like our early human animal brains.

0:22:30And it's a shoulder-to-waist ratio, cap

0:22:32delts, wide lats. It like it creates a

0:22:34certain

0:22:35health picture in our mind. And then

0:22:37women, it's like delts, upper back,

0:22:38glutes, and thighs or hamstrings or

0:22:41something to that effect. All you're

0:22:43going to do is accentuate those body

0:22:44parts that you love. So, to any woman

0:22:46who says, "I'm afraid to get bulky." The

0:22:48answer is you won't because you don't

0:22:50actually have the hormones in you to do

0:22:51so. And even so, it would take years.

0:22:55And you would start to see that if it

0:22:57worst-case scenario it started to

0:22:58happen, you'd start to see it and you

0:22:59can just stop doing the thing that's

0:23:01doing that. Worst case.

0:23:03But, in most in most women's cases, all

0:23:05you're going to do is build a physique

0:23:06that you're proud of.

0:23:08Great.

0:23:10What about people that measure

0:23:11everything?

0:23:12Food-wise?

0:23:14Whoops, auras, sleeps.

0:23:17The guy with two wearables on his arm

0:23:19telling you that that is

0:23:19>> Yeah.

0:23:20What about the people that measure

0:23:21everything? Cuz that's a limiting belief

0:23:22and it's more of like my observation, I

0:23:25mean it aside from you with the double,

0:23:27>> [laughter]

0:23:28>> is that people that are wearing a lot of

0:23:30the measurables, the wearables,

0:23:33are people that are not in shape. And I

0:23:35might be seeing them at the very

0:23:37beginning of their journey.

0:23:38But, I also see people that I encounter

0:23:40in my day-to-day life that have been

0:23:41wearing those things a long time and

0:23:42they're measuring their steps and

0:23:43they're measuring this, but they are

0:23:44>> Yeah. not making any progress. Yeah.

0:23:46It's like this is a great example of

0:23:48majoring in the minors.

0:23:50It's It's the guy who's who comes to me

0:23:52who's 50 lb overweight and he's like,

0:23:53"Dude, I'm I'm hitting my protein window

0:23:5515 minutes after my workout and I'm

0:23:56eating six meals a day and I'm on the

0:23:58Stairmaster." I'm like, "Dude, just go

0:23:59for a walk and drink water."

0:24:01You're not You're trying to sprint. You

0:24:03ain't even crawled yet. Relax.

0:24:05So, yeah, I do think

0:24:07there's nothing wrong inherently with

0:24:08these things. I've used my Whoop for

0:24:09years. I use the Garmin for running.

0:24:12But, I'm not fixated on the data. And I

0:24:14think if you're 60 lb overweight, you

0:24:17shouldn't be focused on your sleep score

0:24:18and HRV.

0:24:20I think that Layne Layne Norton, this is

0:24:23the second time referencing him, but

0:24:24he's got these great analogies. He has

0:24:26the big rocks versus the small rocks.

0:24:28These These wearables, these are very

0:24:30small rocks.

0:24:31The big rocks would be how much am I

0:24:33eating?

0:24:34How hard am I training? Am I training?

0:24:36Am I walking outside? Am I drinking

0:24:38water? Am I sleeping 8 hours a night?

0:24:41Those five If you just focus on those

0:24:42five things

0:24:44and you were at ground zero with your

0:24:45health, you would be unrecognizable in 6

0:24:47months. This stuff, this is a nice to

0:24:49have. They're fun. They're great. And if

0:24:52you really want to take things to the

0:24:53next level and you're just interested

0:24:55in it as a hobby, it's sort of a way to

0:24:57gamify your health. I've also seen it go

0:24:59to the opposite end of the spectrum

0:25:01where people become fixated on their

0:25:04recovery scores and then there's this

0:25:05mind [clears throat] [ __ ] that happens.

0:25:06It's like a It's almost like a

0:25:08technological orthorexia. It's you

0:25:11become so fixated on your health and

0:25:12what the wearable overlords have said to

0:25:14you that you make your decisions that

0:25:15day.

0:25:16Like I sometimes I don't check my Whoop

0:25:17until mid-afternoon after my training's

0:25:19done. Cuz I'm I'm aware that if I wake

0:25:21up in the red, I might let that get to

0:25:23me for my run or my lift or my podcast.

0:25:25>> That's right. So, I just wait. And so,

0:25:27yeah, I do believe most people who are

0:25:28in phase one, they don't they don't need

0:25:29this. Maybe an Apple Watch to track

0:25:31their steps.

0:25:32But, outside of that, you don't need any

0:25:34of this [ __ ] It's great. It's nice to

0:25:35have, but you don't need any of it. And

0:25:36I say that as a guy who's sponsored by

0:25:38Whoop. You don't need this [ __ ] but

0:25:39it's nice to have. We'll cut that out,

0:25:41Whoop.

0:25:41>> [laughter]

0:25:43>> Whoop, you don't need this [ __ ] Sorry,

0:25:44Sam. Sorry, Will.

0:25:46All right, you've said that the mind and

0:25:48body are not separate. What affects one

0:25:51affects the other. Where has that shown

0:25:53up in your life? Where hasn't it shown

0:25:55up, man?

0:25:56This is really where

0:25:58fitness for me started to be more about

0:26:00my body. I think that fitness is like

0:26:02first base of self-development. It's

0:26:04almost a non-negotiable.

0:26:05But, I remembered I got in shape cuz I

0:26:07thought that would fix my problems. And

0:26:09then I got in shape and I realized it

0:26:10didn't fix my problems, but it helped a

0:26:11little bit. But, it taught me some

0:26:13things about myself.

0:26:14Taught me behaviors, delayed

0:26:15gratification, overcoming adversity,

0:26:17patience, long-suffering.

0:26:19Great attributes to have for other

0:26:21facets of your life.

0:26:22It taught [snorts] me that people

0:26:23treated me different, which is

0:26:25unfortunate, but true. I treated me

0:26:26different. It did help my confidence. It

0:26:29did help the way that I moved through a

0:26:30room. I'm a believer in the look good,

0:26:32feel good, play good.

0:26:33But, there's just this component that

0:26:35I think most people are operating

0:26:38at 60% of their capacity because of what

0:26:41they put in their mouth and how much

0:26:42they sleep.

0:26:44And for me, when I started eating whole

0:26:46foods, when I started taking magnesium,

0:26:48that was a big one for me,

0:26:49taking vitamin D, training hard,

0:26:53and getting the psychological benefits

0:26:54of serotonin, dopamine. You know, 95% of

0:26:57serotonin is produced in our gut. So, if

0:26:58you're bombing your gut every day,

0:27:00probably going to have slightly

0:27:01compromised mental health.

0:27:03The endorphin release, the catecholamine

0:27:05release that comes from rigorous

0:27:07exercise, dopamine, epinephrine,

0:27:09norepinephrine, all associated with high

0:27:11levels of mental acuity.

0:27:13So, it's like before before every

0:27:14podcast I do about of exercise, even if

0:27:16it's just a brisk walk. We have We have

0:27:18studies to support that brain scans show

0:27:20dramatically increased brain activity in

0:27:22a cognitive exam post physical exercise.

0:27:25So, naturally you're going to be

0:27:26sharper.

0:27:27So, the mind and body are inextricably

0:27:29connected. It's all one. And then it

0:27:31leads eventually where I think most

0:27:32people go

0:27:33to the spiritual. Like I I didn't I

0:27:35didn't think I could I don't think I

0:27:37could hear God. I don't think I could

0:27:38pray and be as devout in my faith if my

0:27:40body was just a trash heap and I was

0:27:42just dumping crap on it every single

0:27:44day. So, yeah, they're they're

0:27:45inextricably connected. Tell me more

0:27:47about that because

0:27:49I was pretty much an atheist back in the

0:27:51day. I mean, not pretty much. I was.

0:27:53Yeah, me too. Yeah. And

0:27:55since going through my fitness journey

0:27:58and

0:28:00I heard you say one time that people

0:28:02treated you differently when you got And

0:28:04same same thing for me. But, part of

0:28:06that is not just because I looked

0:28:07different. It's also because the

0:28:08confidence I gained, the things that I

0:28:09was doing, how I was treating others. I

0:28:12went through some other self-improvement

0:28:13journey type stuff. But, I noticed that

0:28:15my heart was starting to be more open to

0:28:18God. Right. And for me to be saying that

0:28:20is like kind of a big deal, especially

0:28:22in front of people over here Yeah. that

0:28:24haven't known me my whole life, but

0:28:27tell me more about your heart opening up

0:28:30or being more aware and and open to

0:28:31receiving. Yeah. Yeah. I think it was an

0:28:33energetic thing. That is how it started.

0:28:35Like you said, I just became more

0:28:37confident and thereby made me more open

0:28:39to people. So, when you're very

0:28:41insecure, you're overweight, you're

0:28:42constantly focused on you you you, your

0:28:45appearance. Like that's the source of

0:28:46suffering and misery is if you're

0:28:48chronically anxious or depressed, not

0:28:49for everybody. For a lot of people, it's

0:28:51because you're too focused on yourself.

0:28:53Tony Robbins says, "Go serve other

0:28:54people if you're anxious. Go serve other

0:28:55people if you're depressed. Worry about

0:28:57them, not you."

0:28:58But, when you're in this state of just

0:28:59constant insecurity, what do I look

0:29:01like? Do I have to do the fat boy shirt

0:29:03pull? My fat boys know about that.

0:29:05I'm constantly focused on me. I can't

0:29:07possibly have an open heart posture

0:29:08towards other people.

0:29:10And then when you stop worrying about

0:29:11you and you show up in rooms

0:29:12differently, you're just warmer. You're

0:29:13more open receiving to opportunities in

0:29:15general.

0:29:16And God says they can't hear for Jesus

0:29:18says in the Bible, they cannot hear from

0:29:20me cuz their hearts have been hardened.

0:29:21And so, I think showing up for yourself

0:29:24and choosing to this cliche term of love

0:29:27yourself, but taking care of yourself is

0:29:28a form of self-respect and self-love

0:29:31softens your heart to yourself, which I

0:29:32think softens your heart to God cuz it

0:29:34softens your heart to you and other

0:29:35people. And connection with other people

0:29:37is a way to connect with God as well.

0:29:39And so, that was the journey for me was

0:29:41I felt better than I was more open to

0:29:43people cuz I wasn't so worried about

0:29:44what they thought of me cuz I cared

0:29:46about and was secure in what I thought

0:29:47of me, which then made them more more

0:29:49warm and open to me, Yep. which then

0:29:51made me wonder what else is out there in

0:29:52the form of deep connection. And I think

0:29:54everybody has a god-shaped hole in their

0:29:55heart, and they try to fill it with

0:29:57everything but, and hopefully eventually

0:29:59everybody gets to the truth. If you

0:30:00can't be grateful for anything, then

0:30:02that says more about you than than

0:30:04anything else. Yeah. And right, and

0:30:05people are in hard hard positions all

0:30:06the time that maybe they didn't find

0:30:08themselves in, but for most people, a

0:30:10lack of gratitude, a lack of openness is

0:30:12a is a you problem. Definitely. It's not

0:30:14a other other people problem.

0:30:16>> Definitely. Completely agree. You've

0:30:17also said that confidence is

0:30:19evidence-based. It's not just

0:30:21affirmations, but it's from keeping

0:30:22promises to yourself. And so, what does

0:30:24that look like to you? So, that's

0:30:27another that's another quote from

0:30:28Hormozi that was a real paradigm shift

0:30:30for me. It felt like it it embodied

0:30:32everything that I had done and just

0:30:33didn't know what to call it. I didn't

0:30:34know how to teach people why this stuff

0:30:36was important. And then I heard the

0:30:37Hormozi quote, "You don't become

0:30:38confident by shouting affirmations in

0:30:40the mirror, but by having a stack of

0:30:41undeniable proof that you are who you

0:30:43say you are." Outwork yourself doubt.

0:30:45Ryan Holiday in the in his stoic

0:30:47articles in his newsletter says that you

0:30:49don't lack confidence, you lack

0:30:51evidence. You lack proof.

0:30:53And for me,

0:30:56I struggled with confidence and

0:30:57self-belief my entire life. Like from

0:30:59the as early as I can remember, just

0:31:01being a little bit of a pudgy kid, I

0:31:02remember being hesitant to take my shirt

0:31:04off at the pool. I was seven. Shouldn't

0:31:06be thinking about that [ __ ] but I was.

0:31:09And I remember the first moment I felt

0:31:11this to be true. It was the moment I

0:31:13crossed the finish line of my first

0:31:14marathon. I signed up for that never

0:31:17having run more than 5 miles, and I

0:31:20went, "Oh my god, I've got to 5x that?

0:31:225x plus that?"

0:31:23>> Yeah. And then I decided I wanted to do

0:31:25a sub four, and then I went,

0:31:27I signed up for a thing that scared me,

0:31:28which we can talk about in a moment is a

0:31:30what I now know to be the misogi that

0:31:32Jesse Itzler so famously talks about,

0:31:34the year-defining challenge. And I

0:31:35remember in doing that it was the first

0:31:37time

0:31:38in my entire life

0:31:40that I went, "Oh, I can do anything if I

0:31:42prepare for it.

0:31:43If I just prepare, I can do anything

0:31:46that I want." And that was a really

0:31:47powerful moment. And no one can take

0:31:49that from me. That's the other thing.

0:31:51You know, it's important to say, "I am."

0:31:53I believe I am are two incredibly

0:31:54powerful words. My friend Nick Komodina

0:31:56taught me that. It's in the Bible very

0:31:58intentionally, the words I am.

0:32:00And it it initiates and solidifies for

0:32:03me the importance of what follows that

0:32:04solidifies an identity about yourself.

0:32:07So, those are important. Words are

0:32:08important. Scripture says life and death

0:32:09is in the tongue.

0:32:10But you also need things that you can

0:32:12fall back on

0:32:14when your identity is challenged. No one

0:32:16can tell me I'm not a runner. I've run

0:32:18three marathons,

0:32:19two marathons, about to be a third, an

0:32:21ultra, a 5-minute mile. We have a world

0:32:22record for running, which is really cool

0:32:24story.

0:32:26Nobody can tell me I'm not a runner.

0:32:27Nobody can tell me I'm not a content

0:32:29creator. I've got 3,000 pieces of

0:32:30evidence that would tell you otherwise.

0:32:32And so, you need these things

0:32:34that nobody can challenge because you

0:32:36have the evidence to back it up. Not

0:32:37even you can challenge them. And you

0:32:39build that over time.

0:32:42And when you do that, you also realize

0:32:43that confidence is a universal language.

0:32:45It's not just I'm a marathoner, so I'm a

0:32:47confident runner. It's No, no, no, I can

0:32:49do hard [ __ ] and I can be in moments

0:32:51where I go, "How am I going to do this?"

0:32:52and then I do it. And that behavior

0:32:54bleeds into my business, it bleeds into

0:32:56my relationships, my friendships.

0:32:58It is a universal language. So, I want

0:33:00everybody to understand that confidence

0:33:01is not siloed to just one thing. Where I

0:33:04build confidence

0:33:05doesn't matter, cuz it will go

0:33:07everywhere and then enable me to take

0:33:08more risks and build more evidence in

0:33:11other silos of my life. What does it

0:33:13sound like in your head

0:33:15when you have those moments of

0:33:16self-doubt,

0:33:17but you draw on that confidence? So,

0:33:19you're in you're in a new situation, but

0:33:21you've got the marathon, you've got your

0:33:22social media following.

0:33:24What does it sound like in your head to

0:33:26pull on your other confidence?

0:33:28I've been here before.

0:33:30I've had this feeling before. I think

0:33:32that's the real power.

0:33:34The feeling that comes at mile 19, 20 of

0:33:37a marathon is it happens to everybody,

0:33:39whether you've done one or 10.

0:33:41You just become comfortable with it.

0:33:43Courtney Dauwalter calls it the pain

0:33:44cave. She's one of the best ultra

0:33:46runners in the world.

0:33:47That's where you really get to know

0:33:48yourself.

0:33:49And you can have that in any situation.

0:33:51Discomfort It's just a discomfort. Your

0:33:53nervous system going, "Can we not? Can

0:33:55we get out of here? I'm seeking safety."

0:33:58And so, for me it sounds like,

0:34:01"You've been here before. You know this

0:34:02feeling, just in different ways. Just

0:34:04step completely into the tension." Like

0:34:06I understand now, there's this great

0:34:07quote that my my coach that I work with,

0:34:09Keelan Logue, says, "There can be no

0:34:11ascension without the tension."

0:34:13So, in order to climb upward in life,

0:34:14there needs to be a degree of resistance

0:34:16or pain or discomfort, friction, or

0:34:18tension.

0:34:20And so now, that thing that I feel is a

0:34:22barometer for progress. If I feel that

0:34:24tension in the gym, I'm pushing close to

0:34:25failure, I know I'm going to grow.

0:34:27If I feel that on a podcast or an

0:34:29interview, I know that this is going to

0:34:30be really big. So, actually it's a good

0:34:32thing.

0:34:33I've been here before. Step into this

0:34:35fully and reap the fruit of the other

0:34:37side of it, which is more evidence. How

0:34:39do you know when you're not growing? Or

0:34:40like when you're too comfortable?

0:34:42Right? Cuz cuz there's that that moment

0:34:44of like pressing,

0:34:46and you're like, "I've been here before.

0:34:47Let me try." Like at least in my mind,

0:34:49I'm like, "I think I can try more. I

0:34:50think I can do more." Or like maybe I'm

0:34:52in a familiar situation,

0:34:54and I feel too comfortable. What do you

0:34:56do in those moments, or how do you

0:34:57recognize when you're too comfortable?

0:34:59That's a great question, cuz I think

0:35:00comfort

0:35:02is important. I think comfort is

0:35:04important, complacency is dangerous.

0:35:06There's a great book about this called

0:35:07the comfort crisis, actually.

0:35:09And that I think comfort can be the

0:35:11byproduct of pain and and discomfort.

0:35:14You know, you push through something,

0:35:15you get to it, and you go,

0:35:16>> [sighs and gasps]

0:35:18>> But I do think at any given point, there

0:35:21are always periods of rest, but there

0:35:22needs to be, in my opinion, some facet

0:35:25of your life where you feel tension.

0:35:27Because we're built to suffer, and

0:35:29neuroscience backs this up. I mean, we

0:35:31have the part of our brain, the anterior

0:35:33midcingulate cortex, that literally

0:35:34grows when we go through hardship, and

0:35:37neuroscientists are associating the AMCC

0:35:40being stimulated with our literal will

0:35:43to live. Mhm. When the AMCC grows, when

0:35:45they stimulate it on a brain scan,

0:35:47people report having behaviors or

0:35:48feelings of an impending deadline,

0:35:50something they need to get done, which

0:35:52is really interesting. It's also the

0:35:54only part of our grain brain that can

0:35:55actively grow and shrink, which is

0:35:57crazy. Like we can elicit hypertrophy on

0:36:00an organ in our brain.

0:36:01And so, for me,

0:36:03if I know my will to live, my desire, my

0:36:05purpose is triggered by

0:36:08hardship, no how no matter how big or

0:36:10small,

0:36:11then I should always be identifying an

0:36:12opportunity to be uncomfortable.

0:36:16that every part of my life needs to be

0:36:17pure stress. No, my mornings are great,

0:36:19the day-to-day life is great, but maybe

0:36:20it's

0:36:21maybe it's just a cold plunge in a

0:36:22really hard workout. Maybe that's my

0:36:24stress for the day, cuz I didn't want to

0:36:26do it. And then maybe it's, you know,

0:36:28this journey I'm on right now, full-time

0:36:29nomad, basically controlled

0:36:31homelessness. I'm in a I'm in a

0:36:33consistent state of tension. My nervous

0:36:35system's sense of okayness was always so

0:36:37deeply associated with home and routine

0:36:39and regimen.

0:36:41And another thing my coach says that I

0:36:42love is the more things we need to feel

0:36:44okay, the more fragile we are.

0:36:46And so, I wanted to rip that fragility

0:36:47out from under me. That doesn't mean I'm

0:36:49in a chronic state of stress. It's maybe

0:36:51the pebble in my shoe that I feel, but

0:36:53can run with.

0:36:54And so,

0:36:55I would say if you look around and

0:36:57there's not at least one part of your

0:36:58day, even if it's just a workout, an ice

0:37:00bath, a hard sauna session,

0:37:03that you go, "This is going to hurt a

0:37:04little bit."

0:37:05Then that's where you need to reassess.

0:37:07Yeah, I recently had my genetics done,

0:37:10and I'm I'm getting blood work. I'm

0:37:12going on this whole health journey. I've

0:37:13got a I've got a blood condition, too,

0:37:14that I can tell you about, but

0:37:16realized that my nervous system was like

0:37:18way overstimulated, completely

0:37:20overstimulated. And my genetics actually

0:37:22are predisposed to having an

0:37:24overstimulated high performer uh pro

0:37:27athlete gene. There's a genetic variant

0:37:28about being a pro athlete.

0:37:30>> a lot of caffeine? Yeah.

0:37:32Yeah, I need to get that genetic test

0:37:34done. Yeah, and I'm not supposed to.

0:37:36Apparently according to my my genes,

0:37:38>> to be a matcha girl, but I'm a cold brew

0:37:40girl. Yeah.

0:37:41>> [laughter]

0:37:41>> Whoops. Yeah. Maybe matcha cold brew.

0:37:44Um

0:37:45But uh I I recognized that I it was my

0:37:48nervous system was way overstimulated

0:37:50and needing to like actually

0:37:52take rest, find time, and only focus on

0:37:55the things that are going to actually

0:37:56help build my health. So, but I'm a huge

0:37:58believer in growth. And so, you talked

0:38:01about the misogi. Tell everybody what a

0:38:03misogi if they haven't heard of it. What

0:38:04is a misogi? Why is it important to have

0:38:06one? And what are you What is your

0:38:08misogi for this year? Sure. So, I heard

0:38:10this first from Jesse Itzler, and it

0:38:12really did change my life. So, the

0:38:13misogi is a Japanese principle or belief

0:38:16of purification, and they've sort of

0:38:18tweaked it and altered it, the Jesse

0:38:20Itzler and the All Day Running team,

0:38:22to where the misogi is a year-defining

0:38:24challenge. It's picking something that

0:38:26scares you and going after it anyway.

0:38:28So, in 2022, my misogi was a marathon,

0:38:30because it scared me. And generally

0:38:32physical misogis,

0:38:34it's not that they're low-hanging fruit,

0:38:35but they're obvious paths towards the

0:38:36thing that scare you. They don't have to

0:38:38be physical. So, Sean Perry, the host of

0:38:41My First Million,

0:38:43his misogi, he heard from Jesse when he

0:38:45heard about the misogi, was deciding to

0:38:47learn to play the piano.

0:38:48And it's really cool. He did a vlog the

0:38:50other day or posted it a couple of

0:38:52months ago where he got to sit down and

0:38:53play the piano for Jesse and Sara at his

0:38:55house in Atlanta and say, "I did this

0:38:57because of you. This was my

0:38:58year-defining challenge." And he played

0:38:59him a song. It was really cool moment.

0:39:01And so,

0:39:03I just encourage people to pick the

0:39:04year-defining challenge, the thing that

0:39:05scares you. Maybe it's diving more

0:39:07deeply into your faith, spending time in

0:39:09the word every day. Maybe it's saving an

0:39:10an amount of money that you think might

0:39:12be difficult to be adhere to, cuz it

0:39:13requires a degree of discipline you've

0:39:15never adhered to before. Maybe it is

0:39:17physical.

0:39:19And so, for me, honestly, my misogi this

0:39:21year is this travel thing. Cuz it makes

0:39:23me uncomfortable, dude. I've never done

0:39:25anything like this. Never been gone for

0:39:27more than 2 weeks, maybe three

0:39:29at a time. And I grew up in Atlanta, had

0:39:31places all over Atlanta, but I've never

0:39:33lived anywhere else, and now I live

0:39:34nowhere. It's so the opposite of

0:39:36everything I've ever done.

0:39:38And Jesse actually pointed that out to

0:39:39me. Like I talked about the London

0:39:40Marathon

0:39:42being my misogi, but I'm not really

0:39:44going to try to break my body doing

0:39:45that. I'm not I'm not going to go for

0:39:47some I'm gunning for a 3:30 marathon,

0:39:49but I think I can do that.

0:39:51And so

0:39:52for me, it's this this year defining

0:39:55challenge is

0:39:56can I stay out of Atlanta for 6 months

0:39:58to a year?

0:40:00And that that seems like kind of crazy

0:40:02to me. To never not go see my friends,

0:40:04not go see my mom, my my siblings, my

0:40:06niece.

0:40:07There was a big part of my okayness

0:40:08associated with home.

0:40:10And so it makes me a little nervous to

0:40:12think about being on the road. And then

0:40:14there's this the daily stress that comes

0:40:15with that. Like I got dressed today out

0:40:16of a suitcase.

0:40:18And you have so many clothes. I have 90%

0:40:20of my worldly possessions are in my

0:40:22mom's basement back home cuz I moved

0:40:23them out of my apartment and put them

0:40:24there.

0:40:26And you learn

0:40:27or I've learned what I really need and

0:40:29what I really don't need.

0:40:30And it's just this constant degree of

0:40:32stress. When we get out of here, I got

0:40:33to go book an Airbnb for San Diego next

0:40:35week. I don't have a place to live there

0:40:36yet.

0:40:37So that is my year defining challenge.

0:40:40And I want to encourage everybody to

0:40:41pick something

0:40:43that scares them just a little bit. And

0:40:45like that you're not totally sure that

0:40:46you can do. That's why running is such a

0:40:48great example.

0:40:4999% of people legitimately 99% of people

0:40:52will never run a marathon.

0:40:53They just can't conceptualize running 26

0:40:55miles.

0:40:56And so maybe it's a marathon. Maybe it's

0:40:57a half. Maybe it's a 5K.

0:40:59Doesn't matter. Maybe it's going to the

0:41:00[ __ ] gym for three times a week for 6

0:41:03months cuz you've never done that and

0:41:04that scares you.

0:41:05Everyone's got a relative baseline for

0:41:06Misogi and it's irrefutable evidence for

0:41:09the new identity that you want to affirm

0:41:11about yourself, whatever that is. Great

0:41:12segue because my next question, you talk

0:41:15about

0:41:17the cost of your new life.

0:41:19Cuz you say your new life is going to

0:41:21cost you your old life. Mhm. What does

0:41:24that look like in your journey? Who was

0:41:26old Mike?

0:41:28And who is new Mike? And what are you

0:41:29hoping to find on the other side of this

0:41:31Misogi and the future? That's a great

0:41:33question.

0:41:34>> [sighs]

0:41:34>> If you want to achieve

0:41:36something rare in this life or I'll make

0:41:38this about me. So I don't project my

0:41:40experience on anybody.

0:41:42If I want to do what I say I want to do,

0:41:44prior versions of me can't come with me.

0:41:46The version of me that was a 9-to-5

0:41:49corporate guy can't be the guy who's

0:41:52running his own business. There's just

0:41:53different There's some some behaviors

0:41:55that I carry over, but there's certain

0:41:57behaviors that just can't exist

0:42:00to to be that version of myself. And so

0:42:02your new life is going to cost your old

0:42:04one. That might look like letting go of

0:42:06behaviors,

0:42:08habits. You know, one for me, a

0:42:09low-hanging fruit that I think about

0:42:11that

0:42:12transparently I do kind of miss is like

0:42:14drinking. Like I going out and drinking

0:42:16booze with the buddies. Like going out

0:42:17and getting smashed with my boys. I love

0:42:19doing that. I love having a good time.

0:42:20And I did that a lot when I was a kid.

0:42:23I can't afford to do that now. The

0:42:25opportunity cost of being hungover and

0:42:26now somehow at 28 I'm hungover for 2

0:42:29days.

0:42:30I can't compromise my Sundays and

0:42:32Mondays cuz those are big prep days.

0:42:33I've got calls on Monday nights late. I

0:42:35can't be tired cuz I've got clients to

0:42:37show up for.

0:42:38And so is that something that I miss?

0:42:40Yeah, I miss going out and having a few

0:42:41cocktails with the boys and I still do

0:42:43that on occasion. Keyword on occasion.

0:42:46But that behavior of habitually

0:42:47drinking, not only is it horrific for my

0:42:49health,

0:42:50it just can't come with me if I'm going

0:42:52to do what I say I want to do. If you

0:42:54want to get jacked and lean, you

0:42:56probably can't Uber Eats four nights a

0:42:58week and have no idea what the caloric

0:43:00content of that food is. You just can't.

0:43:02You can't skip workouts for 2 weeks and

0:43:04say I'll get back on the horse. That

0:43:06part of your identity has to die. And

0:43:07the weird part about that, when it comes

0:43:09to really hard things,

0:43:12like getting through hardship,

0:43:14will make you realize what you're really

0:43:15made of.

0:43:17You know, when my dad got sick, that

0:43:18there was a part of me that

0:43:20I feel had to die if I was going to make

0:43:22it through that and not be bitter,

0:43:24broken, resentful, angry.

0:43:27And it was a legitimate grieving

0:43:28process.

0:43:29Like that the coach that I work with now

0:43:31said

0:43:34this is like this is vulnerable for me

0:43:35to admit. I don't think I've ever said

0:43:36this, but he said there's a boyishness

0:43:37in you that has to die if you're going

0:43:38to get through this chapter of your life

0:43:40or you're not going to make it. This is

0:43:41going to get really bad.

0:43:43And he was right. And I'm grateful, but

0:43:45it sucked. It was like killing off this

0:43:47version of me that got me to this point.

0:43:50There's like the legitimate mourning

0:43:51process that takes place, a grieving

0:43:53process that takes place with these old

0:43:55versions of you that have to to die so

0:43:56you can move forward. Tell me about your

0:43:58dad. Dude.

0:44:00The goat. I always told him if if

0:44:02content existed, social media existed

0:44:04when he was born,

0:44:05he'd have three times the followers I

0:44:07did.

0:44:08He was truly truly a special guy. His

0:44:11presence, his ability to command a room,

0:44:13the way he loved on people. I I came to

0:44:15realize later in life that so many of

0:44:17the things he taught me were scriptural.

0:44:19He just never forced or pushed a faith

0:44:21on me. I came to came to faith and came

0:44:23to Christ on my own actually through the

0:44:25experience of him getting sick.

0:44:27So I'm very grateful for it, but our

0:44:29relationship

0:44:31is if I'm privileged, it's cuz of the

0:44:33parents that that raised me. Like they

0:44:35loved me, they poured into me.

0:44:37It They are incredible. My mom is an

0:44:39angel on earth, kind almost to a fault,

0:44:41only cares about serving others before

0:44:43herself.

0:44:44And my dad was the same way.

0:44:46And he instilled these lessons in me and

0:44:48taught me what it looks like to be a

0:44:50man, to be a husband,

0:44:51to be a dad, to be a brother. He was

0:44:53like incredibly special and a remarkable

0:44:56speaker, could command a room, would

0:44:58crush a podcast like this.

0:45:01He was special, man. He was really

0:45:02gifted in a lot of ways and I'm honored

0:45:04and blessed to be able to share half of

0:45:07his DNA, frankly. Like I truly believe

0:45:09if I become half the dad, half the

0:45:11husband he was,

0:45:13I'll crush. He was incredible.

0:45:16And then one day he got sick.

0:45:19And that was the most interesting thing

0:45:22and frankly the greatest gift of reveal

0:45:25I've ever been given about my dad.

0:45:28Because in 7 months

0:45:30he went from

0:45:32the most autonomous, high agency person

0:45:35I'd ever met to bedridden

0:45:37and completely dependent on me and my

0:45:39mom.

0:45:41And golf, big part of his life, work, he

0:45:44was on the road

0:45:4570, 80 days a year. Sales in track

0:45:48sales. He sold running tracks, which was

0:45:49really cool cuz he ran track at

0:45:51University of Georgia. So he got to

0:45:52marry

0:45:54uh his love of the sport. He played

0:45:55football and ran track at UGA and then

0:45:57he got to go sell the best running track

0:45:59in the country and

0:46:00cool story, he actually sold after like

0:46:029 years of work

0:46:05on building and fostering the

0:46:06relationship, things finally lined up.

0:46:07The last job my dad ever sold before he

0:46:10died was the University of Georgia

0:46:11track.

0:46:11>> Ugh. And it just got finished and I was

0:46:13scrolling my Instagram the other day and

0:46:15it just came up.

0:46:16And I got to see it. And that was the

0:46:18first time I had seen it. Mhm. And it

0:46:19was really cool. Maybe there's some

0:46:22finale road trip.

0:46:24Oh, yeah. Well, you know, funny enough,

0:46:25I'm I'm speaking in Athens, Georgia

0:46:27March 27th. Mhm. So I'm going to try to

0:46:29see if I can get into the facility. It's

0:46:31a cool facility, man. It's special. It's

0:46:33the biggest job my dad ever sold and

0:46:35like dollar-wise and the last one and

0:46:38his alma mater and he never got to see

0:46:39it.

0:46:40And I think this is a secret. I don't

0:46:42think it's legal what they did, but the

0:46:43CEO of the company that my dad worked

0:46:45for,

0:46:46they buried a coin with my dad's face on

0:46:48it under the track. So it'll always be

0:46:49there. It's really really a cool story.

0:46:52But

0:46:53he was incredible, man. And he had every

0:46:56every sense of identity that you

0:46:58identify with being a man stripped from

0:47:01him.

0:47:02And not only think not even our

0:47:03generation, think about the

0:47:04bullheadedness and the pride of someone

0:47:06born in the '50s. My dad was 71 when he

0:47:09died. Born in 1953. Still working, too?

0:47:11Yeah. With no [ __ ] signs of slowing

0:47:13down. Yeah. He used to say I'll die on a

0:47:15running track with a smile on my face.

0:47:17Cuz he saw what it did to my

0:47:18grandparents when they stopped working.

0:47:20That we need purpose, we need work.

0:47:22Keeps us sharp.

0:47:24And so he didn't need to keep working.

0:47:26He wanted to. He loved what he did.

0:47:28But then he lost that. He couldn't

0:47:30travel cuz he was so sick and so frail

0:47:32and started losing weight so quickly.

0:47:34And his symptoms of the sickness he had,

0:47:35which is like they could not exist. He

0:47:37could not be alone.

0:47:39And then to have your son

0:47:41care for you in every facet and

0:47:43capacity.

0:47:45Yeah, I told him I I know this is tough

0:47:47on your ego and your pride. He was like

0:47:48there's no room for that anymore. I

0:47:49don't have a choice.

0:47:51And it's the most beautiful gift I've

0:47:53ever been given.

0:47:55Like there's

0:47:56it was what brought me to believe in God

0:47:58because the way that I wound up back at

0:48:00home to take care of him, you couldn't

0:48:01have told me it was coincidence. I

0:48:02remember

0:48:04when he first got sick, we were on a a

0:48:05Zoom call with a

0:48:07functional medicine doc that spouted a

0:48:09bunch of stuff my dad didn't understand

0:48:10and I did because it was my industry.

0:48:13And he got up and this is before he got

0:48:14really sick. He got up and he was

0:48:15walking out of his office and he said he

0:48:17turned around and said,

0:48:19"I know you feel like you're here for

0:48:20kind of a shitty reason." Because the

0:48:22reason I was there was that I ended a

0:48:23relationship where we lived together and

0:48:25moved home to reset my life.

0:48:27And he said, "I know you're here for

0:48:28kind of a shitty reason, but I think

0:48:29you're also here for me. I think God put

0:48:31you here for me."

0:48:33And

0:48:34if God didn't put me there to be there

0:48:36for the last 7 months of my best

0:48:37friend's life, I don't know that I ever

0:48:39would have ever would have forgiven

0:48:40myself.

0:48:41And so to watch him go from

0:48:43fully [snorts] free, fully independent,

0:48:46my idol, my rock,

0:48:48to bedridden and me having to be that

0:48:50for him,

0:48:52he never changed.

0:48:54And that was the greatest, as I said

0:48:55earlier, the greatest reveal

0:48:57of the man that raised me

0:48:59was someone that can have everything

0:49:00that you think makes you a man cuz none

0:49:03of those things really make you a man.

0:49:05His spirit is what made him a man. His

0:49:06biblical masculinity in its finest.

0:49:09He never changed. He never got angry. He

0:49:11never raised his voice. He was cracking

0:49:12jokes until literally 12 hours before he

0:49:15died. I remember the last joke he ever

0:49:16told.

0:49:18And if I can do that,

0:49:21I I'll be happy. You know, my my dad's

0:49:23only hope was that

0:49:25one of the last things he told me

0:49:27when he died we started before he died

0:49:29we started talking about what really

0:49:30matters.

0:49:31And he said, "I just hope

0:49:34that when the day comes" and he said, "I

0:49:35know it's coming soon

0:49:37is that I can hear, "Well, well done, my

0:49:39good and faithful servant. You fought

0:49:40the good fight. You've run your race.

0:49:41Here's your crown." It's all he cared

0:49:43about.

0:49:44From probably the time he was my age

0:49:46until he died.

0:49:47And that's what I think we're all

0:49:48supposed to care about.

0:49:50So, he was incredible. He's incredible.

0:49:52Sounds like it.

0:49:54I feel like, you know, I've watched some

0:49:55of your content and I feel like

0:49:57I know who he is and that I've met him.

0:49:58There's people in my life

0:50:00people who have passed away, friends,

0:50:02acquaintances, my my wife,

0:50:04people in her life, and I feel like I

0:50:05know them based on how how they their

0:50:08energy and the energy that comes through

0:50:10you is pretty incredible around your

0:50:12dad. I appreciate that, man. Yeah, I

0:50:14mean

0:50:16you talked about losing the boyish

0:50:18part of yourself.

0:50:20Yeah.

0:50:21What was that like?

0:50:23Cuz I imagine the role reversal.

0:50:26Right? And in your 20s, I know what I

0:50:28was doing in my 20s. I was not calling

0:50:31my mom. I was not at home.

0:50:33Right? So,

0:50:34do you think you would have been

0:50:36like if you were still with your

0:50:37girlfriend or maybe you didn't move

0:50:38back, would you have been around? No.

0:50:41That's where my belief in God is so

0:50:42strong.

0:50:44It's a weird time to lose a parent

0:50:46because I'm not a kid, but I'm not an

0:50:48adult, it feels like.

0:50:50You know, my friend, her mom died when

0:50:52she was in her late 20s and

0:50:54we've had some relationship things that

0:50:57like technically we're not friends, but

0:50:59just like rifts in other friendships

0:51:01that caused us to not really hang out

0:51:03anymore. But the day my dad died, she

0:51:04was like, "No matter what, I always got

0:51:06your back. We belong to a club and it's

0:51:08a shitty club. It's the dead parents

0:51:10under 30 club."

0:51:12And it's unique because I'm not 16.

0:51:15You know, he's not raising me anymore.

0:51:18But he's supposed to be there for my

0:51:19wedding day. You know, he's supposed to

0:51:20see his grandkids.

0:51:22And there's just like you you get angry

0:51:25cuz you're like, "No, no, no, there's so

0:51:26much you're supposed to still be here

0:51:27for. This cannot happen now.

0:51:29This is supposed to happen when I was

0:51:3040.

0:51:31When I had a wife and a kids and they

0:51:32knew their grandpa and

0:51:34and that sucks, man.

0:51:37And when you ask me about the boyishness

0:51:39and the role reversal,

0:51:42yeah, I mean, my dad would say, "Once a

0:51:43man, twice a child. That's life."

0:51:46You come into this world a screaming,

0:51:47crying baby and you go out of it the

0:51:48same way.

0:51:51And I'm grateful. I wouldn't have wanted

0:51:52it to be anybody anybody else. I

0:51:53wouldn't have wanted some random nurse

0:51:55taking care of my dad.

0:51:57Truly. And he knows that.

0:51:59And I knew that. It wasn't a burden.

0:52:01It was a stressor. Like my nervous

0:52:02system's capacity for stress is beyond

0:52:05what I ever thought possible.

0:52:08And I'm grateful for that.

0:52:10And it's not that the little boy in me

0:52:12had to die. I I recently had a

0:52:13revelation in my content and my

0:52:14authenticity that actually the the

0:52:16little boy in me was who I was

0:52:17suppressing, that that childlike,

0:52:19creative version of us that at some

0:52:20point life tells us we have to bury if

0:52:23we want to fit in, if we want to become

0:52:25popular, if we want to be enough, be

0:52:26sufficient, and we go, "Ah, you can't

0:52:27come with me." That 7-year-old to

0:52:299-year-old kid who's too much or too

0:52:31expressive or not enough or does silly

0:52:33[ __ ] but in the Bible God calls us to

0:52:34be childlike repeatedly, childlike in

0:52:36our faith, childlike in our joy. Be like

0:52:38the children as in Matthew.

0:52:40For they will enter they will inherit

0:52:41the kingdom of heaven.

0:52:42So, being childlike is actually

0:52:44incredibly important, but the world

0:52:45oppresses on us this idea that you need

0:52:47to grow up. You need to stop having fun.

0:52:50You need to stop playing and I think

0:52:52that

0:52:53the longevity of life, the joy of life

0:52:55is in being [ __ ] playful.

0:52:57And so, it's not that I eliminated that

0:52:59part of me.

0:53:00It was it was the codependence and the

0:53:02idolatry that I needed my old man to

0:53:04keep getting through life

0:53:07that had to die.

0:53:08That he taught me everything he could

0:53:10teach me and having him as a gift and

0:53:12the time that I had him was a gift. I

0:53:13didn't lose anything. I found something

0:53:15worth feeling this much sorrow about,

0:53:18which must mean at one point I felt

0:53:20great joy.

0:53:22And the burden, not the burden, the pain

0:53:24that I went through made me more myself,

0:53:27more secure in my identity, more

0:53:29confident with that kid in me,

0:53:31more me than I've ever been. There's

0:53:33this great scripture in the Bible that I

0:53:34reference every chance that I get

0:53:35because it changed my life.

0:53:37James chapter 1 verse 2 through 4.

0:53:39It says, "Count it all joy when you face

0:53:41trials of many kinds because you know

0:53:42the testing of your faith produces

0:53:44perseverance. Let perseverance run its

0:53:47course so that you may be complete and

0:53:49lacking nothing."

0:53:51Perseverance, complete, lacking nothing.

0:53:55If I hadn't gone through what I went

0:53:56through with my dad, I wouldn't be

0:53:58equipped to help people. I wouldn't be

0:54:00equipped to sit across this table from

0:54:02you.

0:54:03And so, we should count it all joy.

0:54:05I count it all joy that I went through

0:54:06that with my dad because I would have

0:54:08rather

0:54:09had the deep, meaningful relationship

0:54:11with him and have him pass when I'm 27

0:54:14than be like a lot of people are with

0:54:15their father and be lukewarm until

0:54:17they're 50.

0:54:18And my dad said to me one day and I have

0:54:20this on video.

0:54:22We went outside

0:54:24and mind you, my dad was much older than

0:54:25my peers.

0:54:26My parents are in my friends' parents

0:54:28are in their 50s right now, 60s at

0:54:29latest.

0:54:30My dad was 71.

0:54:33We're sitting outside just getting

0:54:34sunshine cuz he hadn't been outside in a

0:54:35few days and we're leaning up against

0:54:36the hood of my car and I just have the

0:54:37camera recording, just the microphone.

0:54:40I just had the the lens face down and he

0:54:41just we're looking at the sun and just

0:54:43listening to the birds and he says,

0:54:46"Maybe deep down

0:54:49our relationship is so special because

0:54:50we knew we wouldn't have as much time as

0:54:52everybody else."

0:54:54And in that moment, there was just like

0:54:55this deep

0:54:57knowing

0:54:58that he was right, that I knew.

0:55:01I knew it couldn't have been this good

0:55:02for this long. I knew he couldn't come

0:55:03with me through the rest of my life. I

0:55:05knew. It was too good.

0:55:07At some point he had to leave me and I

0:55:09had to do this

0:55:10alone. And and the last thing I'll say

0:55:12about this, I don't even know if this

0:55:13pertains to your question, but it's a

0:55:14really interesting thing.

0:55:17About a year and a half ago, I went for

0:55:18a run with my friend Chris

0:55:21in Atlanta whose dad died 8 months

0:55:23before mine.

0:55:24And we're having this conversation. It

0:55:25was at this point where I couldn't talk

0:55:27about my dad without getting choked up.

0:55:29I wasn't ready to accept he wasn't going

0:55:30to make it.

0:55:31But he was sick.

0:55:33I mean, frail, weak, dependent.

0:55:36And at this point he still has It was

0:55:37probably 5 months before he died, but he

0:55:39was rapidly declining.

0:55:41>> [snorts]

0:55:42>> And Chris's dad died, we went for this

0:55:44run

0:55:45and he told me something interesting

0:55:47that I'd never thought of. He said,

0:55:49"You know, in in cultures across the

0:55:51world,

0:55:52there's always this ritual

0:55:55that is the coming of man ritual.

0:55:57And in modern society, we've lost that.

0:56:00In modern society, it's you turn 18 and

0:56:02then you can vote

0:56:03or it's you graduate college and then

0:56:05you get a job, but it doesn't you just

0:56:07it feels like you just melt into

0:56:08different chapters of your life.

0:56:10And in tribes, there's you need to go

0:56:12kill the animal and bring it back to the

0:56:13village and now you're a man. And that's

0:56:15not saying that that's what you need to

0:56:16do, but it's there's this moment that

0:56:18happens that you go boy to man.

0:56:22And we don't have that.

0:56:23And I actually think it's kind of

0:56:24problematic.

0:56:26And so, for in a way, Chris describes

0:56:29this journey as like a coming of man

0:56:31ritual. He said, "I don't I didn't feel

0:56:32that I became a man until

0:56:34I got the call that my dad died and he

0:56:36couldn't be there."

0:56:38And he uses the the example of The Lion

0:56:40King.

0:56:41Like Mufasa dies and Simba loses his dad

0:56:43and there's this grief and then he gives

0:56:44it goes on this great journey and meets

0:56:46friends and allies and adversaries along

0:56:48the way and then he comes back and he's

0:56:49the king of the pride.

0:56:50And it's his coming of man journey.

0:56:53And in a way, I think that I feel more

0:56:54like myself because

0:56:57though this was hard for me to accept,

0:57:01my coach at the time, Gabriel, said,

0:57:02"What if it's God's will for your life

0:57:04for your dad to die?

0:57:05What if this has to happen?"

0:57:08And I was not ready to accept that. It

0:57:09made me angry.

0:57:12I think he was right.

0:57:14I think that I couldn't become who I

0:57:16think God is calling me to be if my dad

0:57:18was still with me because I'd always

0:57:19have the crutch.

0:57:21And so, he just couldn't come with me.

0:57:23I don't even know if that answers your

0:57:23question, but It's beautiful. Absolutely

0:57:26beautiful. Yeah, I think

0:57:29part of the purpose is probably

0:57:31speaking to this microphone and

0:57:32everybody listening and

0:57:34picking up the phone and calling their

0:57:35dad. Yeah.

0:57:37>> Your parents.

0:57:38Yeah. Yeah, call them. If you if you're

0:57:40on the outs,

0:57:42it's not worth it.

0:57:43I had that conversation with a few

0:57:44people. You know, me and my mom are

0:57:46great. I was talking to my mom

0:57:47until I pulled into the parking spot

0:57:49there.

0:57:50Just calling to say hi.

0:57:52Like dude, the first thing I would do

0:57:54this time 2 years ago after this show

0:57:55would be walk out and call him and tell

0:57:57him how it went. And I'm still going to

0:57:58tell him.

0:58:00>> [sighs]

0:58:00>> But if you are listening to this and

0:58:03you're on great terms with your parents

0:58:05and you just haven't called them in a

0:58:06week cuz life got busy, [ __ ] take 5

0:58:07minutes. It takes 5 minutes.

0:58:10Take the 5 minutes. It means more to

0:58:12them than it will to you.

0:58:14And if you have an estranged

0:58:15relationship and you're letting pride

0:58:17and ego get in the way, I promise you

0:58:20the sense of victory and the

0:58:21solidification of your fragile ego that

0:58:23you feel right now will be nothing

0:58:25compared to the grief you feel if they

0:58:26die and you don't get to say it. You

0:58:28don't get to say what you need to say.

0:58:30A mentor of mine said, "Grief comes from

0:58:32words left unsaid."

0:58:33And me and the old man, we left nothing

0:58:35on the table.

0:58:36Nothing.

0:58:37And I don't I feel no grief.

0:58:39Do I miss him? Sure. Course. In a

0:58:41worldly way, I do.

0:58:44But there's nothing that I hope he could

0:58:45have known or that he hopes I could have

0:58:47known

0:58:49that we didn't share with each other.

0:58:50And so, I implore anyone who's in that

0:58:52stage,

0:58:53swallow your [ __ ] pride and pick up

0:58:55the phone.

0:58:56Drop your ego. You're not too busy and

0:58:58pick up the phone. Just do it.

0:59:00How do you spell love?

0:59:02T I M E.

0:59:05Uh you're going to get me with that one,

0:59:06dude.

0:59:09That was super important

0:59:12to my old man. I told this story on uh

0:59:15You know Elliot Buick? Mhm. I was on his

0:59:17show last weekend and

0:59:20I don't think I've told this story, but

0:59:21my dad really valued people's time.

0:59:24You know, he'd always say it's the one

0:59:25asset we're not making more of.

0:59:28The one. And so, when someone gives it

0:59:30to you, respect that.

0:59:33A week before he died,

0:59:36we were in Emory Hospital in Atlanta.

0:59:38He was about to be transferred to home

0:59:40hospice in our house in in Georgia.

0:59:44And his two best friends,

0:59:46Jeff and Brian came to see him, his two

0:59:48best golf buddies.

0:59:50And at this point, my my dad looks

0:59:52jarring. He's 6'2, probably 120 lb.

0:59:56Frail, lost all of his muscle.

0:59:59It's just It's It's uncomfortable to see

1:00:01someone like that that was once so

1:00:03vigorous.

1:00:04He's in He's in a hospital bed. He's in

1:00:06and out of consciousness. They have him

1:00:07on morphine for the pain.

1:00:09>> [snorts]

1:00:10>> And they walk in and he He's sleeping

1:00:13and he sort of squints his eyes open and

1:00:14he lets out a big smile and

1:00:17he

1:00:19grabs their hand and says,

1:00:21"Thanks for everything." Oh, wow. I see,

1:00:24emotions comes up randomly.

1:00:27"Thanks for everything,

1:00:29but most importantly, thank you for your

1:00:31time."

1:00:33And of course, they turn around. They're

1:00:34like, "What do you mean? Thank you.

1:00:35Thank you for everything. It's

1:00:38It's a testament to his like his

1:00:39identity, man. It wasn't [ __ ] It

1:00:41wasn't [clears throat] an act.

1:00:44He was a week from dying and he thanked

1:00:46them for his for their time.

1:00:49It's like, what kind of character, what

1:00:50kind of heart

1:00:52do you have to have? That's special.

1:00:54That's That's being like Christ.

1:00:57And that's what Christianity calls us to

1:00:58do. It doesn't call us to read our

1:00:59Bible. It doesn't call us to pray. We

1:01:01need to do those things. It's suggested.

1:01:03It encourages it. But the mission

1:01:07is to be more like Christ.

1:01:09To serve others at all costs.

1:01:12And he did that.

1:01:14And to be able to see and share that

1:01:16moment with them,

1:01:18I hope that if I if I'm on my hospital

1:01:20bed and the first thing on my mind is

1:01:22the time that other people gave me,

1:01:26I think I think I'll be happy. I think

1:01:28I'll be proud of myself.

1:01:30Cuz that was incredible to bear witness

1:01:32to.

1:01:33We've only known each other a short

1:01:34time, but

1:01:34>> Mhm.

1:01:36that's something that I noticed about

1:01:37you is

1:01:38the gratitude that you have for other

1:01:41people being in your life.

1:01:44Thank you. And the time that they're

1:01:46taking.

1:01:47There's

1:01:49People People are energy, right? The

1:01:50energy that you put out

1:01:52is reciprocated, right? And the energy

1:01:54that I notice in you is extreme

1:01:55gratitude. Like showing up, servant

1:01:58leader. Like my experience is someone

1:02:00that wants to change the world. Right?

1:02:02And you're here to serve in many

1:02:04different ways.

1:02:05And so, that particular quote, I wasn't

1:02:07trying to get you to be emotional.

1:02:09>> That's all right. But

1:02:10>> a favorite of mine. Yeah.

1:02:12Yeah, and I heard you say that on one of

1:02:14your podcasts and people don't have that

1:02:17outlook anymore. People don't have that

1:02:18perspective. It's a me me me take take

1:02:20take. And my experience of you is giver

1:02:22giver giver. And I imagine that a lot of

1:02:25that came from your dad. So, I just

1:02:26wanted to honor you and honor him a

1:02:27little bit um in that way.

1:02:29>> Thank you. He'd be He'd be proud to hear

1:02:31that for sure. And I

1:02:33You know, I wonder sometimes if people

1:02:35don't feel and it's easy

1:02:37to get caught in the throws of life.

1:02:39We're human.

1:02:40It's easy to go I me my. It's easy to

1:02:42want to take. Our flesh is literally

1:02:44evil. Like it's [laughter] selfish. It's

1:02:46greedy. It wants more. And the the basis

1:02:48of Christianity is dying to self because

1:02:50that's actually paradoxically where

1:02:51ultimate fulfillment comes from. The

1:02:53reason I feel this way is because there

1:02:55was something that happened in my life

1:02:56that forced me to slow down.

1:02:59That forced me to surrender.

1:03:01That forced me to feel everything I was

1:03:03feeling.

1:03:04It's this interesting tension of this

1:03:06internet career exploding and everybody

1:03:08on paper thinks I have this awesome life

1:03:09cuz

1:03:10I'm I'm having all this cool [ __ ] happen

1:03:12to me.

1:03:13But at home, everything's in shambles.

1:03:16And it it I'm so grateful that it

1:03:17happened when it did

1:03:19because I know what really matters. Like

1:03:22all of this stuff is incredible.

1:03:24It's all just nice to have.

1:03:27It's an honor and I'm humbled and I'm

1:03:28trying to steward it properly. Being

1:03:29here with you was an honor.

1:03:32But like what matters is what am I going

1:03:33to be thinking about when I'm in the

1:03:35last week of my life?

1:03:37And I love you and I love this time, but

1:03:38it probably won't be a podcast. Yeah. No

1:03:40matter the podcast.

1:03:41>> Yeah. It's going to be Did I show up for

1:03:43people? Did I call my mom? Did I spend

1:03:45time with my kids when they come into

1:03:46the world, whenever that is?

1:03:48It's going to be the things that really

1:03:50matter and I got to see what that looks

1:03:51like. I got to hear the guy who I look

1:03:53up to the most

1:03:54who I thought lived the fullest life

1:03:56ever

1:03:58only focus on the things he wishes he

1:03:59did more of.

1:04:01And it had nothing to do with worldly

1:04:03achievements. It was I wish I spent less

1:04:05time on the golf course. I wish I spent

1:04:06more time with your mom and I wish I

1:04:08spent more time with you kids.

1:04:10And I didn't view it that way at all.

1:04:12But it's amazing what he viewed from his

1:04:13perspective of a dying man.

1:04:16And I think that it also So, people

1:04:18haven't had

1:04:19something to force them to slow down,

1:04:21something to pull them out of the the

1:04:23speed of the world. The pastor who I

1:04:25love in the church I go to in Atlanta,

1:04:27Pastor Philip Mitchell,

1:04:291 month before my dad died, every week

1:04:31in December they take about 2 weeks off.

1:04:33It's a period of rest for the church.

1:04:35And so, Sunday I picked up That Sunday I

1:04:37picked a virtual sermon, random one for

1:04:39like two from 2 years ago. And the basis

1:04:41of that sermon of all times, 1 month

1:04:43before my dad died,

1:04:45was

1:04:46Pastor Philip talking about 2019

1:04:48beginning to really grow

1:04:51and at the same time his dad was sick.

1:04:53And I was like, "Whoa."

1:04:56And the whole premise

1:04:58of that sermon was

1:05:00the tension between what you want and

1:05:02what God's will for your life is.

1:05:04And this this space between. He said,

1:05:06"Up here, I have all the success and the

1:05:07congregation's growing and the

1:05:08exposure's growing and we're bringing

1:05:10people to Christ and I just want my dad

1:05:12to get better."

1:05:13That's all he wanted.

1:05:15And he's praying for that and God's not

1:05:16giving it to him.

1:05:18That's exactly how I felt. It was crazy

1:05:20that I picked that sermon.

1:05:22Because I didn't give a [ __ ]

1:05:24that the following hit 2 million on

1:05:25TikTok. I just wanted to be able to tell

1:05:27my dad about it.

1:05:28I didn't care that I was in a GQ

1:05:30magazine. I don't give a [ __ ] I got to

1:05:32take my dad to his appointment

1:05:34to at the cancer center.

1:05:36Like that's what matters and ultimately

1:05:38it kept me very grounded

1:05:41in reality and that none of this stuff

1:05:43matters and it can all be taken away.

1:05:45You know, it matters in the way that you

1:05:46need to steward it properly, serve

1:05:48people.

1:05:49Which for me also, I'll say,

1:05:52I hope people slow down before they're

1:05:53forced to

1:05:55with their own sickness, the sickness of

1:05:56a loved one, the tragedy of a loved one,

1:05:58tragedy in general.

1:06:00But also,

1:06:02taking the pressure off themself. It's

1:06:04having this conversation with Chris

1:06:05yesterday on on the podcast we did.

1:06:08Modern Wisdom, by the way. Chris

1:06:09Williamson. Yes.

1:06:10>> [laughter]

1:06:10>> Congratulations. Thank you. I appreciate

1:06:12it. I appreciate It was a cool moment.

1:06:14And it sounds almost like I'm

1:06:15bullshitting when I say this, but like

1:06:17my only parameter for fulfillment for

1:06:19ful- for fulfillment is

1:06:22serving people.

1:06:24And that is such a wide spectrum. That

1:06:26can be this podcast. It can be a piece

1:06:28of content. Could be a homeless shelter.

1:06:30It could be asking the barista how their

1:06:32day's going and trying to make them

1:06:33smile cuz you can tell they're down.

1:06:35But if that's my only metric,

1:06:38you know, Tony Robbins says if we want

1:06:39to live a life of fulfillment, we need

1:06:40to make it really easy to feel good and

1:06:42really hard to feel bad.

1:06:44So, if my main metric

1:06:47for fulfillment is serving others,

1:06:48there's a billion ways I can feel good.

1:06:52And it also takes the weight off of

1:06:53achievement and accolade.

1:06:55So, it's like does the It's a barometer

1:06:57for easy decisions. Does this honor God?

1:06:59Does it serve others?

1:07:00And then it makes everything else just

1:07:01like, "Wow, this is so fun." Mhm.

1:07:03Because [clears throat] all I'm trying

1:07:04to do is serve others and just the size

1:07:05at which I'm able to do that grows. With

1:07:06a platform like yours or a platform like

1:07:08Modern Wisdom, which is just an

1:07:09opportunity to serve.

1:07:11And that makes feeling good and happy

1:07:13really really really simple.

1:07:16And that's what I want people to

1:07:17understand is that that's

1:07:19Jesus washed feet the night before he

1:07:20was killed.

1:07:22Are you better than him? Whether you

1:07:23believe in him or not,

1:07:25his history says he's a pretty good

1:07:26dude.

1:07:27Are you above the guy who washed feet of

1:07:29the people who followed him to their

1:07:30deaths? Probably not.

1:07:33And so, if Jesus served, if Christ

1:07:34served, he's the the epitome of the

1:07:35servant leader blueprint,

1:07:38that's probably a good idea of a

1:07:40framework to follow for your life. You

1:07:41know, Tony Robbins also says success

1:07:43material success without spiritual

1:07:45fulfillment can feel like the ultimate

1:07:46failure.

1:07:47That's why you have billionaires at the

1:07:49top who feel empty inside.

1:07:50You have people at the top of the

1:07:51industries who take their own lives.

1:07:54Because on the outside, they're full.

1:07:56They're fulfilled. But on the inside,

1:07:58they're dead. They're hollow.

1:08:00And I have friends I have close personal

1:08:01friends in my life who are doing this

1:08:02right now

1:08:04who are reaching out to me, who have

1:08:05made a bunch of money

1:08:06and have stability

1:08:08and yet they just don't feel any fire

1:08:11inside. They're not happy.

1:08:13Proverbs 13:12 says, "Hope deferred

1:08:15makes the heart sick, but a longing

1:08:16fulfilled is a tree of life."

1:08:18And hope deferred for a lot of people

1:08:20can look like

1:08:21going for the conventional career that

1:08:22made a millions of dollars and never

1:08:24taking that risk to start the business.

1:08:26And then they get to 40 and they feel

1:08:27trapped in the career they built for

1:08:29themselves and they're worried what

1:08:30everybody's going to think of them if

1:08:31they go after the dream.

1:08:34You You kind of are liv- But you're

1:08:35living in the other half of that verse

1:08:36now.

1:08:36>> I It It was It was hard. It was tension.

1:08:38It was

1:08:39talking about killing off my old

1:08:40identity. Yeah, what was that like for

1:08:42you? Oh my god. Head hitting the pillow

1:08:44every single night. You're You're an

1:08:45idiot. You're stupid. This will never

1:08:46work. What are you doing?

1:08:47>> Practically, what happened? Tell me what

1:08:48happened. What was the transition period

1:08:50you endured?

1:08:51I

1:08:52climbed the corporate ladder, right? My

1:08:54philosophy was I'm I'm going to run this

1:08:56company.

1:08:57And I got to the top and I saw how

1:09:00people were living. I saw their bodies.

1:09:03I saw the decisions they were making. I

1:09:04saw that they were saying one thing and

1:09:06doing another. And I saw how long it was

1:09:08actually going to take for me to achieve

1:09:10any real material success and at the

1:09:12time that everyone was spending at work,

1:09:14on the phone,

1:09:15uh emergency response, like weekends,

1:09:17nights, and away from their family, I

1:09:19said, "Not for me." And so, that spurred

1:09:22the real estate. That was like,

1:09:24"I have to create something else that's

1:09:25going to give me some stability and

1:09:27security, and that's when we would just

1:09:28dove into real estate, but I was still

1:09:30doing double duty consulting and real

1:09:33estate.

1:09:34>> Yeah, what were you doing in corporate?

1:09:35I was an engineer, IT, leadership, you

1:09:37know, kind of did that whole transition.

1:09:39>> Wow, an engineer with charisma, that's

1:09:41rare. No wonder you were good at your

1:09:42job.

1:09:42>> So, that's the other thing is I thought

1:09:44feeling like the black sheep and an

1:09:46outsider and weird and different was

1:09:48just normal corporate environment.

1:09:50Because you hear all the things about

1:09:51corporate, oh, it's this, you know, I

1:09:53thought that was like normal. And then

1:09:54looking back now, it's like, no, I was

1:09:56always meant for something more. Like

1:09:57like a lot of people are. A lot of

1:09:59people are meant for something more, but

1:10:01I just thought feeling weird and out of

1:10:02place was normal.

1:10:04But looking back is like, no, I was I

1:10:07was never meant to be there. I was meant

1:10:08to learn a lesson. It took me a lot

1:10:10longer than I felt.

1:10:12And then the decision to start the

1:10:14podcast and really go full-time in

1:10:16content came from a realization that I

1:10:19was sort of looking at everyone else

1:10:22that was doing it. I would look at

1:10:23someone like Michael Smoke or

1:10:25the other mentors in my life, and I

1:10:27would be giving them advice. I would

1:10:28say, you should do this. You

1:10:29But like, who am I? And I realized

1:10:32oh, I want to do that.

1:10:33>> Yeah. You're outsourcing it to everybody

1:10:35else.

1:10:35>> Exactly. I'm outsourcing it to everybody

1:10:36else, and I'm not taking ownership of of

1:10:38what I truly want.

1:10:40The

1:10:42when I finally realized that what I

1:10:43wanted to do was start the podcast and

1:10:44create content, it was like, I have to

1:10:46go admit that this is what I want to do.

1:10:49And I have to go tell people, and I have

1:10:50to put myself out there. And the fear

1:10:53around being seen, and the fear around

1:10:55looking like a failure, and the fear

1:10:57around

1:10:58investing time, money, and energy and

1:11:00not being successful

1:11:02was extremely scary. When I know that I

1:11:05could go just keep investing in real

1:11:07estate or keep going back into a career,

1:11:08but it was so on my heart. And it ended

1:11:11up being like the deepest desire that I

1:11:12ever had.

1:11:14And and so it was really like killing

1:11:15off an old part of myself over and over

1:11:18and over and over again because they

1:11:20come up. And the further away you get,

1:11:22there's these moments

1:11:24where I'm going to level up, right? Or

1:11:26something's going to happen, and I'm

1:11:27tested the most. That old mindset comes

1:11:30in. Last night, tossing and turning,

1:11:31thinking about stuff. But then here I am

1:11:34with you and in like less than a year,

1:11:36all these guests and these things that

1:11:37are happening, but still there's these

1:11:38moments where it comes in. It's like,

1:11:40no, you got to you got to go back to

1:11:41this. You got to do this cuz the hard

1:11:43wiring of my brain and my body

1:11:46has been there for 35 years. Right. And

1:11:49that's that's really part of the game.

1:11:50So, the goal

1:11:52then is what happened with you is the is

1:11:55second part of that verse, which is a

1:11:56longing fulfilled, tree of life. You

1:11:57seem, if I can be presumptuous, happy.

1:11:59Yeah. Like you're glad you're doing

1:12:00this.

1:12:01>> 100%.

1:12:01>> Tree of life, self-sustaining energy

1:12:02source. So, the goal then is is not

1:12:05necessarily suppressing the parts of you

1:12:07that get back in the way that creep back

1:12:09in. The goal is staying connected to

1:12:11inspiration.

1:12:11>> Yes. And inspiration comes from a deep

1:12:13place. I think it's divine. And so, the

1:12:15goal then is not how do I overcome the

1:12:17fear? How do I battle my insecurities?

1:12:19Cuz that makes it a fight. It's more of

1:12:20a dance. It's not how do I push down the

1:12:23block? It's how do I stay connected to

1:12:24inspiration?

1:12:25And every for every new level, there's a

1:12:27new devil. Like the fear never goes

1:12:29away, and there's nowhere to get. It's

1:12:31an it's a

1:12:33it's an exponential curve. It never hits

1:12:34zero. Zero is death. That's when your

1:12:36life is over.

1:12:38And so, there will always be a level

1:12:39where you hit that programming. And so,

1:12:42the goal then is to how do I how do I

1:12:43navigate this to stay connected to

1:12:46inspiration? And I think

1:12:48it doesn't come from maximizing our

1:12:50potential. Everybody wants to maximize

1:12:51their potential. It comes from deeply

1:12:53knowing the parts of yourself that don't

1:12:55want you to do that. Mhm. Because if you

1:12:57can do that, you can then understand

1:12:59them and decide if they're valid or not.

1:13:01People go, I feel

1:13:03[ __ ] your feelings, work harder. That's

1:13:05the root of all hustle culture and

1:13:06grindset culture.

1:13:08But like I said earlier, what you don't

1:13:10what you bury will bury you and will

1:13:12come around in your subconscious mind

1:13:13and run the [ __ ] show. Cuz eventually

1:13:15it'll hit a level where you can't ignore

1:13:17the fear of perception, the number one

1:13:19fear that I think plagues everybody. The

1:13:21fear of being perceived. My fear of

1:13:22perception, my threshold is a lot higher

1:13:25than someone who's never posted a video

1:13:26on the internet. But eventually

1:13:28I'll hit a I'll hit a level. I just hit

1:13:30a new level. I'm doing my first show

1:13:31overseas live, and I'm like, oh, [ __ ]

1:13:34What if nobody buys tickets?

1:13:36New level, new devil. Yeah. And guess

1:13:38what? If one person shows up, they're

1:13:39going to get a great [ __ ] experience,

1:13:41right?

1:13:41>> going to give them everything I have.

1:13:42>> Exactly.

1:13:43>> Exactly. It's like that Have you seen

1:13:44that the videos going viral on the

1:13:45internet right now of the guy who hires

1:13:47the magicians and the impersonators to

1:13:48come to his house and it's just them?

1:13:50>> Yes. It's like, I hired a Tom Cruise

1:13:52impersonator to come to my house.

1:13:53>> Yeah, and what fun. Yeah. Yeah. Did you

1:13:55see that one specifically, by the way?

1:13:57>> No, I didn't know. Okay, so there's Have

1:13:58you guys seen this one? Oh my god, no.

1:14:01This is such a great Oh, it's so funny.

1:14:02>> Here, should we watch it? Yes. Yes.

1:14:04Yeah. Look up Okay, look up I hired a

1:14:07Tom Cruise impersonator. [laughter]

1:14:10And he just It's just him. For anyone

1:14:11listening to the show, the guy hires

1:14:13people who do parties and events, and

1:14:14it's just him and the the person, and

1:14:16it's super uncomfortable. This is real?

1:14:19This is real, bro. He hires the guy, and

1:14:21the guy does a an act, and he's like,

1:14:22what do you want me to do? Do you just

1:14:23want me to like do my thing? He goes,

1:14:24yeah, just do your thing. You've got an

1:14:25hour with you. I paid for an hour. And

1:14:27it's him sitting on the couch just

1:14:29watching the Tom Cruise impersonator. He

1:14:30does one with a magician, and the

1:14:31magician's like, I'm very uncomfortable

1:14:33right now. He's like, that's all right,

1:14:34I paid you. Do the act. And it's just

1:14:37unbelievably uncomfortable. This has

1:14:38nothing to do with what we're talking

1:14:40about.

1:14:40>> It does. It does.

1:14:41>> But

1:14:42last week, I did a Modern Wisdom episode

1:14:44with Chris, Shawn Perry, and George

1:14:46Mack. We did this group episode called

1:14:48open tabs. Or I think that's I hope this

1:14:51doesn't spoil anything. Chris hasn't

1:14:52decided on a name yet. The episode

1:14:53hasn't come out yet. But it's Chris

1:14:55calls it adult show and tell. And so, we

1:14:57all bring stuff we found interesting

1:14:59from the week or the last couple weeks,

1:15:00and we just share it. And Shawn goes,

1:15:02have you guys seen this guy who's hiring

1:15:04party talent? Millions of people have

1:15:07seen that video. And Shawn's talking

1:15:09about cuz we're doing show and tell.

1:15:10We're showing the articles and the

1:15:11videos on the screen, and he's he's

1:15:13showing the video of that that you were

1:15:15trying to find. And as he does that,

1:15:18that [ __ ] Tom Cruise impersonator

1:15:19barrels through the Modern Wisdom door

1:15:21and goes and grabs Chris, and he goes,

1:15:22haha, woo. Chris waves, and how are you?

1:15:25And Chris is like, Jesus, Mary, and

1:15:27Joseph. Like he's in the studio with

1:15:29>> No way. And he sits down and just

1:15:30partakes in the Modern Wisdom podcast

1:15:32for 10 minutes. Yes. And then tells us

1:15:34about the time that he met Tom Cruise

1:15:35for real and how great it was. And it

1:15:37was just like a the actual guy from the

1:15:39video Shawn Perry hired and brought to

1:15:42Austin, Texas so he could crash the

1:15:43Modern Wisdom podcast. It's [ __ ]

1:15:45hilarious.

1:15:46>> That's so funny.

1:15:47>> no idea why I told you that, but I

1:15:48remember There's a picture of me like

1:15:50this.

1:15:50>> Being seen in the cringe and like Yeah,

1:15:53this fear of perception.

1:15:55I still have no idea why I told you that

1:15:56story, but I love it. either way, it was

1:15:58hilarious and just a really funny thing

1:15:59to be a part of.

1:16:00>> I I want I want to dig into social

1:16:01media, but first there's a philosophy

1:16:03cuz a lot of what we were just talking

1:16:04about,

1:16:06there's you can take on a victim, going

1:16:08back to before the Tom Cruise.

1:16:09>> Sure. You can take on the victim and the

1:16:11blame of whatever situation you're in.

1:16:14You know, with with your dad, you could

1:16:16hold a victim or blame conversation. You

1:16:18could blame God. You could blame

1:16:19whoever. Anyone going through hardship

1:16:21or the new level, new devil, right? You

1:16:24might have gone through a level, but you

1:16:25hit a new devil, and you might start

1:16:27pointing fingers and blaming, but you

1:16:28take on a philosophy that I also have

1:16:31taken on

1:16:32through a lot of work, but everything is

1:16:35my fault. Mhm. Right? Extreme ownership.

1:16:38Can you tell me what extreme ownership

1:16:39has looked like in your life throughout

1:16:42everything and why people are not taking

1:16:45ownership or what you see when people

1:16:46are not taking ownership of their life?

1:16:48Yeah, I actually have a a podcast

1:16:49episode titled everything that happens

1:16:51to you is your fault. I had a guy on the

1:16:52show who's a bit of a polarizing

1:16:54personality, can't deny his success. I

1:16:56love him. His name's Chris Cavallini.

1:16:58He's the CEO of Nutrition Solutions, the

1:17:00meal prep company I work with. And he's

1:17:01an interesting dude. He's like very

1:17:03eccentric. He's covered in tats, super

1:17:05animated, loves nice cars, nice watches.

1:17:09But he has this incredible story

1:17:11of being a homeless kid in Boston to

1:17:14self-made multimillionaire.

1:17:16So, it's like, you might be different

1:17:17than you, but you cannot refute whatever

1:17:18he did [ __ ] worked.

1:17:20And he was the first person I ever heard

1:17:21talk about this. Jocko has a book,

1:17:23Extreme Ownership, that you alluded to.

1:17:26Everything that happens to me is my

1:17:28fault.

1:17:30Now, that sounds immediately like a

1:17:33fallacy. Doesn't sound correct because

1:17:34there are things that happen to us out

1:17:36of our control. And yeah, duh. Of course

1:17:38there are things that just happen.

1:17:40However,

1:17:41if you take the extreme embodiment of

1:17:43this mindset of everything that happens

1:17:44to me is my fault, what you do is you

1:17:47take back agency in every situation.

1:17:50I got dumped, my fault. How was I not

1:17:53showing up that made her feel safe,

1:17:54seen, heard, and understood? I got

1:17:56fired, despite I thought I did

1:17:58everything. I got fired, I must not have

1:18:00been a valuable enough asset. And so,

1:18:02the point is not to degrade yourself or

1:18:04to shame yourself. It's to maximize the

1:18:06control that you have in a given

1:18:07situation so that you can manipulate the

1:18:09outcome to the best of your ability for

1:18:11future endeavors.

1:18:13And so, it sounds a little bit

1:18:14delusional, but what it's done has given

1:18:16me tremendous control over my life. If

1:18:19the content's not working, my fault. You

1:18:21know, the podcast dipped. It's my

1:18:22[ __ ] fault. I haven't uploaded an

1:18:23episode in 2 weeks. My fault. Uploaded

1:18:26an episode this morning cuz I said it

1:18:27was my fault. I need to figure the [ __ ]

1:18:28out. And so, we did an episode. And so,

1:18:30what it looks like is giving yourself

1:18:33maximal opportunity to change future

1:18:36outcomes.

1:18:37And you can you can look at this two

1:18:39ways.

1:18:40A lot of people have extreme

1:18:41circumstances, poverty, hardship, death,

1:18:43tragedy, whatever. And you can sit in

1:18:45those circumstances and never move

1:18:47forward and be totally justified in that

1:18:49because it makes sense.

1:18:51Or you can succeed in spite of them.

1:18:53And I think the scariest part for people

1:18:55when it comes to pure ownership and

1:18:57radical accountability

1:18:59is in non-extreme cases even, or at

1:19:02least,

1:19:03when you strip away every excuse you

1:19:05have ever made, you are faced with the

1:19:08reality of how simple, not easy, but

1:19:10simple it is to change your life. And

1:19:13that means you have to change, and

1:19:14that's scary. Yep. It all comes back to

1:19:16fear. Yeah, it all comes back to fear,

1:19:18100%. Yeah, and it's it's

1:19:21how you do one thing is how you do

1:19:22everything, right? It's those little

1:19:23moments.

1:19:23>> Like returning your shopping cart. Yes.

1:19:25Yeah, return your shopping cart. I do it

1:19:27every time. Every time. And every every

1:19:29time I post a video about it, people go,

1:19:31"Why are you so worried about other

1:19:32people?" I'm like, "Dude, just say

1:19:33you're a bad person. You outed yourself.

1:19:34You don't return your shopping

1:19:35[laughter] cart. I bet your house is a

1:19:35mess." Yeah, and I'm not sitting there

1:19:37actively looking and judging. I used to,

1:19:39but but it's

1:19:40>> I just grab the cart and go, "Have a

1:19:41nice day." No, I'm kidding.

1:19:43>> [laughter]

1:19:43>> It's something to notice, right? How you

1:19:46react in traffic. Like what's There's

1:19:48something about people getting in a car

1:19:49and all of a sudden we're like warriors

1:19:51on the road and everyone's in my way.

1:19:52Like how you respond that way, like the

1:19:54way you show up, the way you respond is

1:19:56a choice in every single moment. And

1:19:59until you recognize and you can practice

1:20:02that and understand that you have like

1:20:04you have the choice of how you respond.

1:20:06And if you don't and if you don't

1:20:08believe that, then you're out of agency

1:20:09and you're out of control of your own

1:20:10life and you're allowing everything

1:20:12around you to dictate your emotions,

1:20:13your actions, your habits, everything.

1:20:15And you're completely out of control of

1:20:16your life. That's it. Yeah. That's it.

1:20:18One of my favorite but simplest quotes

1:20:21ever. Paradigm shifting for me, maybe

1:20:22meaningless to someone else listening to

1:20:23this.

1:20:25When you change the way you look at

1:20:26things, the things you look at start to

1:20:27change.

1:20:27>> Mhm. It's the epitome of perspective.

1:20:29It's not what happens to you, it's the

1:20:30vantage point you choose to view it

1:20:32from. I could view my dad dying last

1:20:35year as why me, why me, bitter, angry,

1:20:37unfair.

1:20:39Or I could use the outlook of what is

1:20:41this teaching me? And it taught me so

1:20:43much.

1:20:45It told me what I'm made of.

1:20:46It taught me that I can show up when it

1:20:48feels impossible. It taught me how to

1:20:50deeply be empathetic for others. It

1:20:51taught me grief for the first real time

1:20:53in my life.

1:20:54It taught me so much. And if I had taken

1:20:56the mindset of this is [ __ ] and I'm

1:20:58angry at God,

1:20:59I definitely wouldn't be across this

1:21:01table from you right now. No shot.

1:21:04And I'd probably be at honestly probably

1:21:06[ __ ] be back in the corporate world

1:21:07because social media would have stopped

1:21:08working cuz I would have just appeared

1:21:10in bitter, appeared bitter to everyone

1:21:12who listened to me. It's just not an

1:21:13option in my opinion. Mhm. I'm so

1:21:16grateful that you chose a different

1:21:17option. Me too, dude. Life's way better

1:21:19this way. Millions of people I think are

1:21:21grateful, right? So so let's talk about

1:21:22social media because you're sort of the

1:21:24pioneer of the yapping video, right?

1:21:26>> know about that. I mean, who else, you

1:21:29know, how many Tik Tok followers do you

1:21:30have now? 2 million. 2 million, you've

1:21:32approaching a million on Instagram. And

1:21:35when was your very first post? Where you

1:21:38were like, "Okay, I'm going to start

1:21:38posting on social media." March 7th,

1:21:402023. Just just 3-year anniversary just

1:21:42passed.

1:21:43>> 3-year anniversary. And tell me what has

1:21:45happened in that time. Give me the

1:21:46numbers. Give me the output like

1:21:49>> [laughter]

1:21:50>> What do you want to know? Well, I mean,

1:21:53who were you back then and what has

1:21:55social media

1:21:57created for you over that time? And who

1:21:59did you have to become in these 3 years

1:22:01to even be able to hit those numbers?

1:22:03Why did you Why do you believe you've

1:22:05gotten that amount of people to follow

1:22:07you and listen to you?

1:22:08A lot's happened.

1:22:10I I uploaded the

1:22:12the video about shopping cart theory

1:22:14yesterday. It was from 3 years ago.

1:22:16I was just looking at myself and I was

1:22:17like, "Wow.

1:22:19Wow, you've been through a lot, my man.

1:22:21Like you don't even know what's coming."

1:22:23Like in that video,

1:22:24I maybe had

1:22:27like I 200,000 followers. I was doing it

1:22:29full-time, I think.

1:22:31And I just remember like super long

1:22:32curly hair and I like I sounded younger.

1:22:35Like my voice is like an octave higher.

1:22:37Mhm. And I think it's maybe because I

1:22:38still wasn't totally comfortable being

1:22:40myself on camera.

1:22:42And I was like, "Woof, the years have

1:22:43not been kind. You should have worn

1:22:44SPF." But

1:22:46I mean, what's happened, dude? Like this

1:22:49this life

1:22:51was not even in my conscious realm of

1:22:53awareness. I didn't know that this was

1:22:54something you could do. I didn't know

1:22:55what a [ __ ] influencer was.

1:22:58I didn't know that like I didn't call

1:22:59Christian Guzman and Max Tuning and Mike

1:23:01Thurston influencers. I just watched

1:23:02them on YouTube.

1:23:04But that being a life that people

1:23:06watched me, that was not That's not why

1:23:09I got into this.

1:23:10I needed a place to put my passion.

1:23:13Nobody in my life cared about the

1:23:15interior mid-cingulate cortex of growing

1:23:16when we do hard things. Rightfully so.

1:23:19We've all got our interests, okay?

1:23:20That's just mine.

1:23:21But it can feel pretty isolating when

1:23:23you have this passion. Hope deferred

1:23:24makes the heart sick. When you have this

1:23:26passion and nowhere to put it.

1:23:28And that's what it felt like for me.

1:23:29Like I really love this stuff. Like I I

1:23:32could talk about it for free and I know

1:23:33I could cuz I did for 8 years.

1:23:36And I would again if it all went away

1:23:38tomorrow.

1:23:40And so it started because I just wanted

1:23:42to tell

1:23:43as my dad would say, "If you just help

1:23:45one person today, how much better, how

1:23:47much more is that than many people will

1:23:48ever do?"

1:23:50And that's all it was about. Like I

1:23:51remember I told you earlier,

1:23:53I'm lean, I have abs, I'm strong, I can

1:23:54kind of run far and like my life is

1:23:56great. Why does everyone think that this

1:23:57is this sucks? I'm just going to tell

1:23:59people how I make it not suck.

1:24:01And then fifth video ever,

1:24:03protein 101. I remember it very clearly.

1:24:05I I was unconsciously doing things that

1:24:08work in social media frameworks like a

1:24:09visual hook. I I hit the camera on my

1:24:12head and was like, "Protein 101." I

1:24:13would never do that now. It's It was

1:24:14very silly. But it was like a a visual

1:24:16hook. It kept you for a second. And it

1:24:18turns out it answered a very very

1:24:20commonly asked question, "How much

1:24:21protein do I really need?" And that I

1:24:23think was my fifth video ever.

1:24:25>> [snorts]

1:24:26>> And I remember posting it right after

1:24:28the gym, taking the 15-minute drive

1:24:30home. And at this point I had

1:24:32like

1:24:33a hundred followers. I remember calling

1:24:35my dad and he brought this story up at

1:24:37every follower milestone. 100k, 500k, a

1:24:39million, 1.5, 2. Mhm. He would say, "I

1:24:42still remember when you called me and I

1:24:43was at Florida Atlantic at the on the

1:24:45track and you said, 'Dad, I have a

1:24:46hundred followers. Can you believe a

1:24:48hundred people care what I have to

1:24:49say?'"

1:24:50And I still feel that way.

1:24:52I don't give a [ __ ] if it's a hundred or

1:24:53a million.

1:24:55Like if you have the power, anybody

1:24:57listening out there has the power,

1:24:58advice, knowledge, wisdom, perspective

1:25:01to directly influence the way somebody

1:25:03thinks or acts,

1:25:05then you should never stop creating

1:25:06content and you should start if you

1:25:08don't. Cuz that is something that not

1:25:10everybody will get to be able to do in

1:25:11their lifetime. That's a very special.

1:25:14And if you can change one, you can

1:25:15change a thousand. Cuz we're all going

1:25:18through the same things. Ecclesiastes

1:25:19says there is nothing new under the sun.

1:25:21Mhm. We all struggle from the same

1:25:22things.

1:25:23And so what's happened in the last 3

1:25:24years?

1:25:26I I I've been to places in rooms and in

1:25:28conversations with people that like I've

1:25:30watched on the internet. You know, I

1:25:31told Chris on the podcast, I was like,

1:25:33"This is weird. I've watched you do this

1:25:34with Matthew McConaughey and Alex

1:25:36Hormozi where you do the thing where you

1:25:37say the quote back to them and then just

1:25:38pause Yep. and wait for them to talk

1:25:40about it and now you're doing it to me.

1:25:42That's [ __ ] crazy, dude. I stole that

1:25:45format, by the way. I love that format.

1:25:46>> So did I. Yeah. We all [laughter] did.

1:25:48Yeah. We all did. I use that on people.

1:25:49It's a It's masterful.

1:25:51>> Yep. Um like there's nothing new under

1:25:53the sun, you know? Someone did that

1:25:54before him. Mhm. And

1:25:56it's you know, getting published in

1:25:58[ __ ] GQ magazine, what? Like that's

1:26:00weird. Having my friends from middle

1:26:02school and high school be like, "I saw

1:26:04you on the internet." That's crazy.

1:26:06Um it's just so bizarre.

1:26:09And so it's it's just this life that

1:26:11like

1:26:13really brings me to one of the keys of

1:26:14success that I I came to this revelation

1:26:16in a session with my coach

1:26:18about guys at the top.

1:26:20I think of Jesse Itzler.

1:26:22And he's This is my coach is saying. He

1:26:24was like, "I think one of the greatest

1:26:26keys of success is just being blissfully

1:26:28unaware of where you're at."

1:26:29>> Yep.

1:26:30Just be like a child. Mhm. Like when I

1:26:32interviewed Jesse, I was a little

1:26:33nervous about it cuz I had like looked

1:26:34up to him for so long and the Masogi was

1:26:36born from him and

1:26:38and I realized like Jesse got there just

1:26:40being like, "I don't know, man. Let's do

1:26:41it. Let's figure it out." And then he's

1:26:43a billionaire, right?

1:26:45And that's where it was Yeah, I don't

1:26:46know how I got here. I'm just like I'm

1:26:48just happy to be here. I'm just happy to

1:26:49be here with you. I don't know how the

1:26:50[ __ ] I got here. And that's how I feel,

1:26:52too. And I I'm still at the beginning,

1:26:54but that's how I feel, too. It's like I

1:26:55was going to be in corporate forever and

1:26:56now I'm here.

1:26:58>> you can't ever lose that. Yeah. Like I

1:27:00think at the day that I feel like I

1:27:02deserve or this any of this is normal or

1:27:04that my life's not a [ __ ] GTA video

1:27:06game

1:27:07is the day I lose it. Like that keeping

1:27:09the whimsy and the wonder and the

1:27:11childlike faith

1:27:14is critical. And I think that it will

1:27:16only enable you and anybody who's doing

1:27:18this now to ascend higher

1:27:20if they just remain in a state of wonder

1:27:22that they are where they are. Like

1:27:23that's You asked me what had to change

1:27:25is is I think that's never changed. I'm

1:27:26in [ __ ] disbelief every day I wake

1:27:28up. I don't

1:27:29God allow me to steward this well. I do

1:27:31think

1:27:32a big reason that I have this platform

1:27:34because the talking head thing, it

1:27:35doesn't really fit al- algorithmic

1:27:37frameworks or formulas. And someone was

1:27:40like, "Dude, the reason you're The way

1:27:41you're growing doesn't make sense."

1:27:43And I think it's God's grace cuz I hit

1:27:44this point where it got the biggest it

1:27:46ever was and I felt a deep conviction to

1:27:47talk about my faith.

1:27:49And sort of like he was like,

1:27:50"You've got the platform.

1:27:52Time to talk about me, pal."

1:27:53>> Yeah.

1:27:54You're welcome.

1:27:54>> Yeah. And and I think it puts me in a

1:27:56unique position because

1:27:58I spent so long building trust and

1:28:01credibility through being someone who

1:28:02references literature and analytics and

1:28:04logic.

1:28:06And then I tell people I'm a Christ

1:28:07follower and they're like, "Huh?"

1:28:09I've had people who were like, "Dude,

1:28:10you're you're so smart. I never would

1:28:11have taken you to be a Christian. You've

1:28:13opened my mind."

1:28:14Which is sick.

1:28:17And that's like I I can just plant seeds

1:28:19in people. I think that that's the well

1:28:20done, my good and faithful servant.

1:28:21Yeah. And so it makes sense that it had

1:28:23happened at that point when it was at

1:28:24its pinnacle. That now's the point to

1:28:25say like I'm actually an incredibly

1:28:26spiritual guy.

1:28:28I believe in the spirit world. I believe

1:28:29in spiritual warfare. I believe in all

1:28:30of it.

1:28:31And they're like, "But you're the guy

1:28:32who talks about pub- like papers and NIH

1:28:34and stuff."

1:28:35Yeah. Two things can be true at once.

1:28:37>> So even even when I was an atheist, my

1:28:39argument to that is like, "Well, if you

1:28:40believe in God, then he created

1:28:41everything and so all this other stuff

1:28:43that you're talking about, he created

1:28:44anyway. So Correct. Science is

1:28:45explanation for God's creation or our

1:28:47attempt at it.

1:28:48>> Mhm. And so I I know that's a roundabout

1:28:50way, but

1:28:51I don't know that anything had to

1:28:52change. And I think if something has to

1:28:54change for me to ascend

1:28:55materialistically to a level,

1:28:58then I don't want it.

1:28:59I was I was having this conversation

1:29:00also with Chris about like what

1:29:02authenticity really looks like, staying

1:29:03connected to inspiration,

1:29:05and when I got canceled on the internet

1:29:08a few weeks ago. I didn't get canceled.

1:29:09I just made some people mad. Nothing

1:29:11changed in real life.

1:29:13If if being at the top, like if this is

1:29:16as as big as it ever gets

1:29:18for me volume-wise, impact-wise,

1:29:20growth-wise,

1:29:21but I get to stay connected to

1:29:22inspiration and I get to be me,

1:29:24then this is what I want. Cuz I don't

1:29:26want to build a life to the top on a

1:29:28foundation

1:29:29of a false identity. That sounds like

1:29:31hell. That's not freedom.

1:29:34That's just it's it's the the parable of

1:29:36the sower in the book of Matthew. Jesus

1:29:38talks about building or laying your seed

1:29:40on solid ground. If you build it up on

1:29:42rocks, it will sure surely be scorched

1:29:43by the sun. When you build it at the

1:29:45top, you'll be scorched by the sun

1:29:46because you have no root.

1:29:48And my root, my identity is in God, it's

1:29:50in Christ, but it's also like

1:29:52I'm going to post what is me so that

1:29:54when you see me, you don't get any

1:29:56surprises and I don't have to wear a

1:29:57mask.

1:29:58So I guess what had to change was

1:30:01nothing. And I don't want anything to

1:30:03change and if if I need to ascend to

1:30:05number one in the world in a podcast or

1:30:07creators by being someone else, then I'm

1:30:11not going to do it.

1:30:12I think what you're describing is what

1:30:14everyone is actually seeking.

1:30:16I believe so, too. To live in their true

1:30:18purpose,

1:30:19to be authentically themselves, have

1:30:22true joy, and not need

1:30:25for anything else. Correct. You don't

1:30:27want the thing, you want the feeling

1:30:28that you think the thing is going to

1:30:29give you.

1:30:31That's what it's really about. You don't

1:30:32want to be the best creator in the

1:30:33world, you don't want to go viral on

1:30:35TikTok, you don't want to have a million

1:30:36followers, you want to feel important.

1:30:38You want to feel like you belong, you

1:30:39want to feel significant. You want to

1:30:40feel seen, heard, and understood.

1:30:42If you're if you're a man, you want to

1:30:43feel desired, admired, and chosen. If

1:30:44you're a woman, you want to feel seen,

1:30:45heard, and understood. Those are like

1:30:46the roots of feminine and masculine

1:30:48energy as it pertains to romantic

1:30:49relationships, but

1:30:51that's what we all want. I don't I never

1:30:53wanted to go viral, I just wanted to

1:30:55feel like I had something that could

1:30:56help people.

1:30:57And this is just what it's turned into.

1:30:59You don't want to be the best podcaster

1:31:01in the world or maybe you think you do,

1:31:02but like you want to follow what's on

1:31:03your heart.

1:31:05And that's what I want people to follow.

1:31:07Is is everybody wants to make it to the

1:31:09top, but nobody thinks they can get

1:31:10there by being themselves.

1:31:12But the paradox of it is the greatest

1:31:14people at the top got there

1:31:17doing it in an unconventional crazy way.

1:31:19I was listening to the Founders podcast,

1:31:21I think of Nadal. Rafael Nadal. And the

1:31:23difference between him and Djokovic was

1:31:24like

1:31:25Djokovic got to the end and won the

1:31:26world championships and then had one

1:31:28piece of chocolate melt on his tongue

1:31:29cuz that was the first cheat food he'd

1:31:31ever had. And Nadal would eat an ice

1:31:33cream every night.

1:31:35They're both goats.

1:31:37Different different horses, different

1:31:38courses.

1:31:39And there's different ways to get the

1:31:40feeling of fulfillment. Just because

1:31:42someone got to the top that that way

1:31:44doesn't mean you need to emulate that.

1:31:45Rick Rubin says the best art he's ever

1:31:47seen created, this is a guy who's worked

1:31:49with the Red Hot Chili Peppers, Taylor

1:31:50Swift,

1:31:52is the art that was created for the

1:31:53artist.

1:31:54Under the Bridge was created by

1:31:56Red Hot Chili Peppers

1:31:57as a story of their life and what

1:31:59they've overcome. It wasn't for anybody

1:32:00else.

1:32:01And we all listen

1:32:03to that album on a weekly basis. Like

1:32:05it's it's I'm creating for me and

1:32:07sometimes I'm reminding myself and my

1:32:09goal is to help people,

1:32:11but I think oftentimes when I create a

1:32:12video, I think about like what did I

1:32:14need 5 years ago? What do I need right

1:32:16now?

1:32:17Sometimes I'm making a video, I'm like,

1:32:18"Dude, this is for you. Lock the [ __ ]

1:32:19in. You got to hear this."

1:32:22And that's that's how we stay connected

1:32:24to inspiration.

1:32:25[ __ ] I love this, man.

1:32:27I want to keep asking cuz we have a few

1:32:28[clears throat] more minutes here. Sure.

1:32:31You you created well, you sort of

1:32:33created the Higher Up Wellness

1:32:34Challenge. Didn't mean to. Yeah.

1:32:37Well, let me let me just say one more

1:32:38thing on that cuz this is really

1:32:39important stuff. I probably should close

1:32:40there, but I'm not going to because

1:32:41yeah.

1:32:42>> And I got time. But what do you do or

1:32:45how do you balance

1:32:48remaining authentic, being yourself,

1:32:51striving, achieving,

1:32:53and then sort of what you described of

1:32:55like okay, I want to grow, I want to get

1:32:57something or I think I want to get

1:32:58something. How do you balance those two

1:33:00things, right? Remaining authentic,

1:33:02remaining yourself, but also doing

1:33:04what's necessary or quote unquote

1:33:05necessary to get to the get to the next

1:33:07level. That's a great question cuz

1:33:10well, when Chris and I talked about this

1:33:11on Modern Wisdom yesterday, he was like,

1:33:12"You have to be careful to not tell

1:33:14people to not go after what they want

1:33:16and being more."

1:33:18And that's not what I'm saying.

1:33:20You heard Jim Carrey say, "I hope that

1:33:21everybody can get rich and famous and

1:33:22have everything they ever wanted so they

1:33:23can realize it's not the answer."

1:33:26And I think

1:33:27it's important to max out your stat

1:33:29lines. You know, it's important to chase

1:33:32things. It's important to have goals.

1:33:36I'm not against people having things,

1:33:37I'm against things having people.

1:33:40It's it's one thing to chase and strive

1:33:42for achievement because it's fun.

1:33:44You know, it's it's fun to do podcasts,

1:33:45it's fun to create content.

1:33:47But it goes back to what I said earlier.

1:33:49Like my barometer was does this honor

1:33:50God and does this serve God and does

1:33:52this serve others?

1:33:54And that can look like getting on the

1:33:55Modern Wisdom podcast. That can look

1:33:57like a building a business.

1:33:59That can look like coaching, making

1:34:01money is a byproduct of you helping

1:34:03people.

1:34:05It doesn't mean you don't go after the

1:34:06things and they can give you a sense of

1:34:07belonging and purpose and fulfillment

1:34:09for a short time, especially if they

1:34:11honor God, then they can do it for a

1:34:12long time. It's just my opinion.

1:34:14So it's what I'm not what I'm certainly

1:34:16not saying is

1:34:18be content and complacent because that

1:34:20is not honoring God. You know, we're

1:34:21we're called to love our toilsome labor

1:34:23in the book of Ecclesiastes to take joy

1:34:26in our toilsome labor. The the the

1:34:27minute things, the repeatable things

1:34:29that we do every day, the monotony and

1:34:31and boring nature of our habits.

1:34:33We're supposed to take pride and joy in

1:34:34those.

1:34:36And so I want to make clear I want

1:34:38people to strive for more.

1:34:40I just I want them to know have a clear

1:34:42why behind what they're doing.

1:34:45You know, I'm not building

1:34:47the communication coaching business

1:34:49to make a gazillion dollars.

1:34:51I'm building it cuz I think it's a gift

1:34:52God gave me and I can help people do it.

1:34:55I can help them unlock this piece of

1:34:56them that the world has pressed down on

1:34:57them they're not capable of doing. Want

1:34:59to help them break free of that. That's

1:35:01service.

1:35:02And so

1:35:04go get the supercar. Go make the 500

1:35:06grand from a business because you sold a

1:35:08product that improved people's lives.

1:35:10Keyword phrase improve people's lives.

1:35:12Keep your ethics intact.

1:35:14You can have

1:35:15I love the quote. You can have

1:35:16everything you want out of life if you

1:35:17just help enough people get what they

1:35:18want. It's a Zig Ziglar quote. Yeah, if

1:35:21you make other people money, do you

1:35:22think that money's going to be returned

1:35:24to you? 100%.

1:35:25>> Yeah, exactly. And whatever money is or

1:35:27energy or what you know, you know

1:35:28>> Free value. Exactly, free value.

1:35:29>> The more I give away for free, the more

1:35:31I'm blessed financially. Yeah. Ormosia

1:35:33says give it all away for free, sell the

1:35:34implementation. My friend Nick Komodina

1:35:36says give 10 get one.

1:35:38And you really can. If you help enough

1:35:40people get what they want in free value

1:35:41in your service, your product, whatever

1:35:43it is, you can have everything

1:35:45you ever wanted. But if if what you're

1:35:46chasing

1:35:48what you're chasing is achievement and

1:35:49accolade and fun and memories

1:35:53and just some pride, like yeah, go get

1:35:55the things.

1:35:57But if what you're chasing is identity,

1:36:00belonging,

1:36:02wholeness,

1:36:03nothing of the world is going to give

1:36:04that to you. Nothing. That's where a

1:36:06relationship with God comes in. And so

1:36:08something that you gave people was the

1:36:10Higher Up Wellness Challenge. Yeah.

1:36:12Without knowing that you did it.

1:36:13[snorts] Yeah. Right? And so tell me

1:36:15what it is and start with the post that

1:36:17you made and then what the effects were

1:36:19almost immediately. Yeah, dude, crazy. I

1:36:22think if you search the hashtag on

1:36:24Instagram, it's creeping up on just on

1:36:25Instagram. It started on TikTok.

1:36:27Instagram is only a couple months.

1:36:28It's like 30,000 posts of of people

1:36:31hashtagging this and going viral.

1:36:33So

1:36:35a couple years ago and I've rinsed this

1:36:37video. I've posted it three times and it

1:36:38does really well every time. So a lot of

1:36:40people have seen it.

1:36:41It's

1:36:43communication skills can change your

1:36:44life.

1:36:45If there's one skill I would want you to

1:36:47develop, I think this is something to

1:36:48the effect of what I said. If there was

1:36:49one skill I would want you to develop to

1:36:50change the course of your life, it would

1:36:52be communication skills. Everybody

1:36:54thinks that whatever they have in their

1:36:56ability to speak is just static. Oh, I

1:36:58just have a stammer. Oh, I just speak a

1:37:00little slow. I'm just not that

1:37:01interesting. It's a muscle and you can

1:37:03train it.

1:37:04And in the video, I say, "And this is

1:37:05how you train it.

1:37:07If you want to

1:37:08do this. Do what I'm doing right now.

1:37:10Pick up the phone, pull out the front

1:37:12camera, get in your car where nobody can

1:37:14see you if you're scared to be

1:37:14embarrassed, and hit record and talk for

1:37:17at least a minute unbroken. No editing,

1:37:19no cuts. Try to limit your filler words.

1:37:22Don't say like, don't say um, don't say

1:37:24you know, don't say right. I hate the

1:37:25word right. Terrible filler word. It's

1:37:28feedback for me. It's a right? Right?

1:37:30What you're doing is you're asking for

1:37:31consent that you're right about the

1:37:32thing. You're asking for permission to

1:37:33take up space. Just say the thought.

1:37:35Or you're creating a gap for your mind

1:37:37and mouth to catch up.

1:37:38Right? Yes.

1:37:40>> [laughter]

1:37:40>> That is correct.

1:37:42And so I challenge people to do that.

1:37:45I didn't say tag me. I didn't say

1:37:47hashtag it Higher Up Wellness Challenge.

1:37:48I said post it on a burner account. No

1:37:51one will see it and guess what? If it if

1:37:52everybody sees it, it means you made a

1:37:53great video. Congrats, you just changed

1:37:55your whole life.

1:37:57Bye.

1:37:58It isn't easy, but it is simple. Peace.

1:38:01And I just forgot about it. And it went

1:38:02viral all three times. I think it got

1:38:04over a million views each time.

1:38:07And I made no call to action.

1:38:10And then a few weeks passes

1:38:12and I see like I wake up and I have 200

1:38:14mentions, which is unusual.

1:38:16Maybe 10 or 15, 200?

1:38:19And it's this kid Brandon. I wish I had

1:38:22I wish I had my phone so I could shout

1:38:24his username out

1:38:26because he deserves the credit. And it's

1:38:29like it's Chung or something. Is this

1:38:30TikTok? No, I don't have TikTok. Yeah.

1:38:33Do you have TikTok? Yeah. You know what?

1:38:34This is worth it. I'm going to grab my

1:38:35phone. Leave the cameras on.

1:38:38Chimmy Chunger is his name. He's an

1:38:40Asian guy.

1:38:41>> [laughter]

1:38:42>> Uh Asian guy with glasses and he's

1:38:45awesome.

1:38:47And his first video ever,

1:38:49mind you, I said post it on a burner

1:38:51account and practice.

1:38:53Nobody's going to see it.

1:38:56Day one of 30,

1:38:58uh March 3rd of 2025, first video ever,

1:39:02he makes this video.

1:39:05Hello, I'm [clears throat] Brandon.

1:39:09I

1:39:11You can see he's trying not to use

1:39:12filler words.

1:39:14Cuz I heard this could be really good

1:39:16for

1:39:17helping me improve my public speaking

1:39:20skills.

1:39:21I saw a video from a guy named Hire Up

1:39:23Wellness and he was talking about how

1:39:25just doing this for 60 seconds a day can

1:39:29You get the gist. That video, first

1:39:31video ever, 2.1 million views, 200,000

1:39:34likes. Yeah. First video, can you

1:39:36imagine? You're on a burner and you wake

1:39:38up and you go, "And what just happened?"

1:39:41And then he made a follow-up where he

1:39:43he makes this 100 days later.

1:39:45No, wait.

1:39:47He was right.

1:39:48Three months ago I made a video

1:39:49explaining the importance and

1:39:50significance of sharpening and

1:39:52developing your communication skills.

1:39:54Hello, I'm Brandon. Ended up doing this

1:39:56for 100 days straight. That video has

1:39:57200,000 likes, also. Yeah. And so

1:39:59Brandon and this other creator, Raegfit,

1:40:02r a e g fit,

1:40:03really took this first.

1:40:06And and somehow the hashtag evolved Hire

1:40:08Up Wellness Challenge. It's not in group

1:40:10of Brandon's first video, I just

1:40:11checked, but he associated me with it

1:40:13and it just took on a life of its own.

1:40:15And so that's the challenge. The rules

1:40:16are simple. You have to post every day

1:40:18for a minimum of 30 days. Some people

1:40:20have done this for over a year now,

1:40:21which is crazy. There is some one guy

1:40:23One guy's on day 381.

1:40:26You have to post every day, hard post,

1:40:28not a story, to your Instagram or

1:40:29TikTok. It has to be at least 60

1:40:31seconds. You have to try to practice

1:40:33hard communication skills, filler words,

1:40:35pitch, inflection. It can be about

1:40:37anything.

1:40:38There are no parameters, no no bumpers

1:40:41on the topics, no guardrails. It can be

1:40:42about literally anything, but it has to

1:40:44be for a minimum of a month and at least

1:40:46a minute with no cuts or edits.

1:40:48I think that's all the rules.

1:40:50But it's just been incredible. Like some

1:40:52people have gone viral, Brandon's got

1:40:5440,000 followers, Raegan's got 20,000 on

1:40:56Instagram.

1:40:58Jet Franzen is a creator who started his

1:41:00content on the Hire Up Wellness Public

1:41:01Speaking Challenge and has 500,000

1:41:03followers on TikTok, 300,000 on IG and

1:41:05is now just creating fire content

1:41:08because he overcame the fear of

1:41:09perception. He stayed connected to

1:41:10inspiration, is really what he did. And

1:41:12it's changed his entire life because of

1:41:14it. And so that's cool to see that I'm

1:41:16even associated with it. But then

1:41:18there's people I had a guy DM me the

1:41:19other day,

1:41:20said, "Hey man, I've done your challenge

1:41:21for 100 days

1:41:23and me and my wife communicate so much

1:41:24more deeply than we ever had before."

1:41:27I just remember thinking, "Wow."

1:41:29That's impact. Yeah. If I hung my hat on

1:41:31that and I and I got perma-canceled

1:41:34forever and never create another piece

1:41:35of content,

1:41:37I would I would be proud. I I did a

1:41:39three-part series, the third episode

1:41:41comes out this week I think on how to

1:41:43lock in. The second episode I need to

1:41:45listen to that. Thank you. Yeah.

1:41:47I think you're there, but the second

1:41:49episode

1:41:51I frame it around buying assets or

1:41:52building assets, but actually the

1:41:54premise is you need a vehicle for

1:41:55change.

1:41:56If you want change in your life, it's

1:41:58not just about listening to us and

1:42:01absorbing the information and the

1:42:02mantras and the quotes

1:42:04and reading the books, it's literally

1:42:05picking something that you're going to

1:42:07change about yourself or you're a new

1:42:09muscle you're going to take on. You need

1:42:12the vehicle to create the change in your

1:42:14life. And so I imagine for a lot of

1:42:16people this Hire Up Wellness Challenge

1:42:17was the vehicle. And whether it's to go

1:42:19be an influencer or or communicate

1:42:21better with your family and your wife

1:42:23and and your spouse or just overcome

1:42:25your fear of being perceived. What will

1:42:27they think of me?

1:42:28>> You need a vehicle. You need a vehicle

1:42:29and a lot of times it's fitness, but you

1:42:32need a vehicle to go create the change

1:42:33in your life and

1:42:35you're going to get a lot out of

1:42:36whatever vehicle you choose. But that's

1:42:38why you got to be authentic and be

1:42:39yourself or whatever, but also try to

1:42:41strive. So Completely agree.

1:42:43I want some personal coaching here. So I

1:42:45have I have just under 6,000 followers.

1:42:47I in my mind I'm an I'm an engineer, so

1:42:49I get trapped in my head a lot. In my

1:42:50mind [snorts] I have the podcast.

1:42:52I talk about real estate, but I also I'm

1:42:54going to be doing some fitness stuff.

1:42:56There's some AI stuff creeping in. And I

1:42:58do mainly just podcast clips.

1:43:00But I'm sort of feeling like, "Okay, I

1:43:03think I need to post more talking head

1:43:05videos just to the camera."

1:43:08But wondering how that's perceived or

1:43:09wondering how that should fit into my my

1:43:11strategy, right? Like I don't see Chris

1:43:13Williamson doing it.

1:43:14>> Yeah. But is that right for me? Perfect

1:43:16example of he got to the top, so you

1:43:18have to emulate it, right?

1:43:19>> Yeah. That's the trap we get sucked

1:43:21into. Yeah. So first I would ask you,

1:43:24what is your goal with this? What do you

1:43:26want to achieve long term with the pod,

1:43:28with your socials? What do you want to

1:43:29do? It's a couple things. One, I want to

1:43:31help change people's lives through this

1:43:33type of information, getting access to

1:43:35people like you that have transformed or

1:43:37changed their lives.

1:43:39Some of it is going to be through

1:43:41look at what I'm doing and I've done,

1:43:43this fitness challenge, this race that

1:43:44I've signed up for and showing what's

1:43:46possible.

1:43:47Getting to talk to

1:43:49people. That's like almost a selfish

1:43:51part of it, right? I just want to go see

1:43:52who I can talk to.

1:43:53>> That's good.

1:43:54>> Right? And and it's it's like, "Look

1:43:56what I did." Meaning I quit my job. I I

1:43:59[ __ ] did it. I got over my fears. I

1:44:01did everything, right? It's almost like

1:44:02a

1:44:03like I'm just a normal guy and I did it.

1:44:06So that's that's one thing. And then the

1:44:07second piece is I want to help people

1:44:09create financial freedom for themselves,

1:44:11to get out of the trap. So I have a

1:44:12community that does that. There's other

1:44:13ways that I want to help people, but

1:44:15it's to also create freedom, not just

1:44:18financial freedom, but freedom for

1:44:19people. What you've been talking about.

1:44:22I'm really passionate about getting

1:44:23people

1:44:24unstuck and out of whatever they're in.

1:44:27This is a tough question.

1:44:30This is going to really require you to

1:44:31take a look at your ego.

1:44:34Are you okay with it never being huge?

1:44:37And I mean, how many followers you got

1:44:38now, 6,000?

1:44:39>> 6,000. Yeah.

1:44:41What if it only ever gets to 10,000 and

1:44:42not 100,000 or a million? Are you okay

1:44:45with that being the limit the limit or

1:44:46extent of your impact? I think when I'm

1:44:49okay with that is like what you

1:44:51described, that that feeding into

1:44:54inspiration, continuous growth.

1:44:57Am I living the life that I want to?

1:44:59It's not necessarily about the

1:45:00followers, it's about the impact that

1:45:02I'm having. Right.

1:45:04>> The numbers don't really matter.

1:45:06For me it feels like an indicator that I

1:45:08haven't connected with my audience

1:45:10enough. Mhm. That's what I'm feeling.

1:45:12Well, I think

1:45:13this is what's important and I know

1:45:14people are going to say, "Well, it's

1:45:15easy for you, you built a big

1:45:16following."

1:45:17>> Yeah. But I was never attached to the

1:45:18idea of building a big following. I

1:45:19posted for a long time. The Instagram

1:45:22took forever.

1:45:24And when I was at a million on TikTok, I

1:45:26had like 8,000 on Instagram. It was just

1:45:28nothing. It was a grind. And then all of

1:45:30a sudden, boom, just took off.

1:45:33I asked that question cuz I've asked my

1:45:35clients this in my coaching cohort, are

1:45:36you okay with your impact not being to a

1:45:39million people? Cuz a lot of people

1:45:41won't admit it, but they really want to

1:45:42go viral and have a big following.

1:45:44Cuz that means some sense or illusion of

1:45:46increased security, increased impact.

1:45:49But then I know people

1:45:51who are incredibly financially free

1:45:53and running a business off of 10,000

1:45:55hyper-engaged listeners.

1:45:58You know, I would rather have 10,000

1:45:59people who would go to war for me than

1:46:01100,000 people who tune in for 2 minutes

1:46:03sometimes. Yeah, that's where I'm at.

1:46:05Right.

1:46:06>> Right. As long as I'm able to live the

1:46:08life that I want, not just monetarily,

1:46:10but like

1:46:11if this podcast stays small, small

1:46:13numbers, but I'm still able to talk to

1:46:16the people that I want to talk to and

1:46:18have an impact, a strong impact on the

1:46:20people that are following me, the

1:46:22numbers don't really matter. Right. It's

1:46:23just It's just an indicator of where I

1:46:25think I'm like when you talk about

1:46:27extreme ownership, it's it's my fault,

1:46:29right?

1:46:29>> Yeah. Where I'm not showing up and

1:46:32trying to figure out the best way to

1:46:33really connect, create that connection.

1:46:36Not for not even for a million, but like

1:46:38who are my people? Yeah. You know? Yeah,

1:46:40I think

1:46:42the podcast guest is all

1:46:43relationship-based, I've come to

1:46:45realize. Like I was on Modern Wisdom cuz

1:46:46of a relationship and then Chris and I

1:46:48developed a friendship.

1:46:50And

1:46:51like he didn't have a massive amount to

1:46:52gain from having me on the show. I'm

1:46:54even if anything like next up, he's

1:46:56already up. So like he's doing me a

1:46:58favor having me on that show, I know

1:46:59that.

1:47:00And

1:47:02I think I've heard of people at this guy

1:47:03Travis, he's got a great pod, Travis

1:47:05Makes Friends.

1:47:06Crazy guests. Crazy guests.

1:47:09But it's not a massive show, it's not a

1:47:11Modern Wisdom. He's just super tapped

1:47:13in. Mhm. He's really connected and he's

1:47:15really intentional about outreach.

1:47:17And so I I would argue you could still

1:47:18have that thing. So if you if your

1:47:19inspiration you're staying connected to

1:47:21is I just want to talk to who I want to

1:47:22talk to,

1:47:23even if the show doesn't get big, I

1:47:25think anyone who doesn't go on a show

1:47:28that you say you want to talk to because

1:47:29it's not big enough is probably just an

1:47:30[ __ ]

1:47:31I wouldn't That's [ __ ] that person. I

1:47:34wouldn't want to talk to them anyway.

1:47:35That is not worth my time. I think that

1:47:36that's a stupid thing to do.

1:47:38I want to talk to people that I feel

1:47:40connected to and that I think I'd have a

1:47:41good conversation with.

1:47:42>> Mhm. Doesn't matter if I have a million

1:47:43followers, 10 million followers, $100 or

1:47:45a million dollars. I think that people

1:47:48not coming on I've had people not come

1:47:49on my podcast cuz it wasn't big enough.

1:47:51And I was like, "I get it." Like I get

1:47:53the business decision. I just think that

1:47:55for me, my opinion is that's an ego

1:47:56play.

1:47:57It's like, "This doesn't serve me."

1:47:59Okay, well, what about all the people it

1:48:00would serve? Who could hear your voice?

1:48:02So,

1:48:04have you heard me talk about

1:48:06the pillars of a great creator? No, go

1:48:08for it.

1:48:08>> pillars?

1:48:10So, are Do you know Leo Skepi? Yeah, I

1:48:12love Leo.

1:48:13>> I think Leo Skepi is a master class Yep.

1:48:15of this.

1:48:17So there's three pillars that I think

1:48:18make a great creator. I've been watching

1:48:20the the talking head yappers for a long

1:48:21time, even studying my own content and

1:48:23I'm now consciously aware of what I was

1:48:24once unconsciously doing.

1:48:26But Leo is I think there should be a

1:48:28Harvard Business School study on this

1:48:29dude's content cuz he's [ __ ]

1:48:31brilliant.

1:48:32So the three pillars are this. You have

1:48:34informational,

1:48:36aspirational, relational.

1:48:39Informational is Leo's podcast. I'm

1:48:41going to teach you I'm going to be your

1:48:42therapist. We're going to dive into

1:48:44self-limiting beliefs. Lately he's been

1:48:46diving into his faith, diving into

1:48:48relationships and how to navigate

1:48:49breakups. He is very much in the

1:48:51authority position.

1:48:52I teach, you listen. That's Leo Skepi's

1:48:54podcast, very minimalist, one of the top

1:48:57shows in the world, Aware and

1:48:57Aggravated, fantastic.

1:48:59And then you have aspirational,

1:49:02which is in a couple different veins.

1:49:04What what you said earlier, "I'm just a

1:49:06normal guy and you can do this too. Mhm.

1:49:08Leo does that really well. He talks

1:49:09about coming out of an abusive

1:49:10relationship, struggling with

1:49:11self-worth.

1:49:13But then also being an immigrant from an

1:49:15immigrant family. I think his parents

1:49:16are from the Ukraine or something.

1:49:18And now he lives this lavish lifestyle.

1:49:20Now this isn't me saying that having

1:49:21material things is success.

1:49:23But he'll buy

1:49:25$30,000 Cartier earrings. And it's like

1:49:28well you're doing well, right? That's

1:49:29that is aspirational. Having wealth is

1:49:31something we all want cuz it brings a

1:49:32sense of security. I'm not going to sit

1:49:34here and pretend money doesn't matter.

1:49:36But then you look at where he came from.

1:49:37He didn't always have that. So it gives

1:49:39people something to aspire to.

1:49:42And it makes them feel like they can

1:49:43when the last piece comes in which is

1:49:44relational. And for Leo that's good

1:49:46morning and [ __ ] Come and get ready

1:49:47with me for the day. Yep. And it's like

1:49:49people comment, oh I'm on FaceTime with

1:49:50Leo again or be quiet my show is on.

1:49:53There's no like get your [ __ ] together,

1:49:54get out of that relationship, leave that

1:49:56guy, leave that girl. That's for the

1:49:58podcast. That's when he's in his

1:49:59informational pillar. Mhm. And so for me

1:50:02informational is teaching you about

1:50:03creatine, public speaking, caloric

1:50:05deficit, strength training. Any of the

1:50:07things that I feel qualified to teach

1:50:08on. Aspirational is

1:50:11in a way I overcame grief and I built a

1:50:15life for myself that I'm proud of or I

1:50:16left corporate. And now I've built a

1:50:18life as an entrepreneur that I'm proud

1:50:19of and you can do this too. Something

1:50:20you can aspire to. But then relational,

1:50:23very human. It's me going on the 7-day

1:50:25bender of eating filet-o-fish sandwiches

1:50:27every day. It's

1:50:28reviewing the Oreo flavored Coke Zero

1:50:31which is an

1:50:32my most viewed video ever which is still

1:50:33[ __ ] insane to me.

1:50:35Just proves the internet's funny. It's

1:50:36all a lottery ticket, you never know.

1:50:38Call that top of funnel content. So

1:50:40that's my at my relational,

1:50:42aspirational, informational. And if you

1:50:44can embody those three pillars that

1:50:46leads to what Tony Robbins calls a

1:50:48raving fans. Mhm. And so your podcast is

1:50:50very informational.

1:50:52But how much does your podcast clip tell

1:50:54me about you? Not a lot.

1:50:56Right. Especially with guests. Right.

1:50:58>> Yeah, yeah.

1:50:58>> Cuz most of them are of of the guest

1:50:59talking.

1:51:00>> Yeah or it's informational, you know, or

1:51:03aspirational. Right. Yeah. I think you

1:51:05need to have all three pillars. Leo

1:51:06nails all three pillars and it's why

1:51:08he's got 15 million followers that would

1:51:09do anything for him. Mhm. He's

1:51:11uncancelable. Yeah. There's people that

1:51:12will go to war for him.

1:51:14Cuz he they like him, they trust him,

1:51:16they learn from him and they perceive

1:51:18that he is like them. Mhm. That's what

1:51:20you want.

1:51:21That's what you want as a creator in

1:51:22sales, all of it. So your opportunity

1:51:26for relate like you would score low in

1:51:29relational. I don't know a lot about

1:51:30Cassidy.

1:51:31>> That's right. So how do I know the guy

1:51:32cuz I could go to any podcast and listen

1:51:35to a guest interview.

1:51:36But why do I want to go to Cassidy?

1:51:37That's right. Maybe that's where you

1:51:39need to hammer in on a talking head

1:51:40video or a

1:51:41dude, I quit my [ __ ] job. When did

1:51:43you quit? Well, I quit twice

1:51:44technically. Most recently was just over

1:51:46a year ago. Okay, I quit my job last

1:51:48year and I'm recording a podcast. Yep.

1:51:50I'm like every mid-20s white dude you've

1:51:51ever met. Welcome to your worst

1:51:52nightmare. Something funny, you know?

1:51:53>> And I do that on my stories all the

1:51:54time, but I haven't I haven't posted

1:51:55that stuff.

1:51:55>> It always comes back to this, dude. I

1:51:57was talking to Sam Sam Christine, Sam C

1:51:59Fit on her show. She was like, well I

1:52:01post all those on my story. And I was

1:52:03like, well why don't you put it on the

1:52:03feed, Sam?

1:52:05So why don't you put it on the feed,

1:52:06Cass? I don't know.

1:52:07Um Of course you do. There There Yeah,

1:52:09okay, thank you. My wife and I

1:52:10>> [laughter]

1:52:11>> we are not using I don't know anymore.

1:52:12We are never using I don't know.

1:52:14>> Yeah, don't give me that.

1:52:14>> Yeah.

1:52:15Uh

1:52:17easier, hiding in the stories, and then

1:52:20this idea of like, well podcast clips

1:52:22versus talking head and getting caught

1:52:23up in

1:52:24all the aesthetic of my page, the

1:52:26algorithm and all that.

1:52:27>> Yeah. It's all up here. Yeah. That's

1:52:29your problem. You're too [ __ ] smart.

1:52:30>> Yeah. You'd be like me. You'd be more of

1:52:32an idiot.

1:52:32>> I do. Yes. I You're not an idiot. You

1:52:34are not an idiot by the way, but yes, I

1:52:35like need to channel just my like

1:52:38dumb brain, my lizard brain to just and

1:52:40I know and and my gut. I have a question

1:52:42Dan Martell. I got this from Dan

1:52:43Martell. What are you pretending not to

1:52:45know? And what I'm pretending not to

1:52:46know is that if I even just did your

1:52:48challenge, the Higher Wellness Challenge

1:52:50for 30 days, I would probably get

1:52:52everything that I've been asking for and

1:52:54and it's really to connect with my

1:52:55audience and have like find my people

1:52:57and have my people find me. Mhm.

1:52:59And that's

1:53:01people buy you.

1:53:03There's like we said, there's so many

1:53:04options for white dudes with a podcast,

1:53:06Mike. You're looking at two of them

1:53:07right now.

1:53:07>> Yep.

1:53:08>> [laughter]

1:53:09>> Why? Very attractive fit devilishly

1:53:12handsome

1:53:12>> devilishly handsome

1:53:13>> high IQ

1:53:14>> humble wealthy Yeah.

1:53:16>> [laughter]

1:53:17>> Just got it all dudes that have sure

1:53:19mics in front of them.

1:53:20>> Yep.

1:53:21Why us? Yeah. And that's that's where

1:53:24your authenticity is your edge. Your

1:53:25inspiration that you need to stay

1:53:26connected to is your edge. And so you're

1:53:29afraid to post on your feed is really

1:53:30the issue. There's a fear there. Big or

1:53:32small.

1:53:33And if you figure out what the fear is

1:53:35that's keeping you disconnected from the

1:53:36inspiration get to know that part of

1:53:38you, you can then ask is it valid? And

1:53:40most times it's not. And say, I hear

1:53:42you. It's okay. We're going to do this

1:53:43anyway. Mhm. I've got us.

1:53:45Then you post. Yeah. Then your life

1:53:46changes.

1:53:48That's just my experience. Yeah.

1:53:50All right.

1:53:51Closing out here.

1:53:52Your dad said

1:53:54every day, I think to you

1:53:57have a good day. Be a good person. Be

1:53:59the kind of friend a friend would want

1:54:01to have.

1:54:03What kind of friend would your dad say

1:54:05that you're being right now?

1:54:06Dude, he would be over the moon.

1:54:09If he said if he heard that

1:54:11on a show.

1:54:13So thank you.

1:54:15It's very cool.

1:54:16I appreciate all the all the time and

1:54:17attention you put into the curating this

1:54:19interview. It's super cool.

1:54:23I think my dad would be very proud of

1:54:24me.

1:54:25And I know he was.

1:54:27He never he never missed an opportunity

1:54:28to tell me that.

1:54:31I think if I had to guess what kind of

1:54:32friend

1:54:34he would think I'm being

1:54:37it would be exactly what he asked of me

1:54:38every day when he dropped me off at

1:54:39school from kindergarten to high school.

1:54:42I'm doing everything I can to be the

1:54:44kind of friend that I want.

1:54:46Who do I need?

1:54:48Who do I need right now in my life?

1:54:51That's who I should show up as for other

1:54:52people cuz that's probably who they

1:54:53need.

1:54:54I need someone who's present. I need

1:54:56someone who says yes

1:54:57to opportunities, to spontaneity.

1:55:00To to coming on a podcast having met

1:55:02somebody for the first time.

1:55:04I think he'd be very proud. I hope he'd

1:55:06be very proud and I know when he was

1:55:08here

1:55:09I think one of the

1:55:11most incredible things he's ever said to

1:55:12me that I know is is truly a gift to

1:55:15hear this from a father is

1:55:18you are and always will be my greatest

1:55:19accomplishment.

1:55:23And I want to make decisions

1:55:25every day, big or small.

1:55:27I want to remember what he said. There

1:55:29are no dress rehearsals in life.

1:55:31I don't want to remember to take a step

1:55:33back, look around, look up

1:55:36cuz there are no do-overs.

1:55:39Each sunset is the end of another day.

1:55:41You're not getting it back.

1:55:42So they're all things he said to me.

1:55:44Seven phrases.

1:55:47And I think that what I'm doing now

1:55:51he'd be very very very proud of. And if

1:55:53I can maintain the status the status of

1:55:56of his greatest accomplishment and

1:55:57filling the

1:55:59clown-size shoes that I have to fill in

1:56:01the life of my father

1:56:03it's an impossible task, but I'll do

1:56:05everything I can to to take up that

1:56:07space.

1:56:08And hopes when I see him again, he'll

1:56:09say

1:56:11him and him and my heavenly father will

1:56:12both say well done.

1:56:14That's what I hope.

1:56:15Michael Smoke

1:56:17thank you for your time.

1:56:19Thank you for yours, my friend. It was a

1:56:20blast. I appreciate you, brother.

1:56:22All right, everybody. As always,

1:56:24appreciate you. I love you. It's been

1:56:26for your own good.

1:56:27Peace. Peace.

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