For Your Own Good › Episode 92
The Hybrid Athlete's Guide to Training, Nutrition, and Building a World-Class Network | Eric Hinman
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About this episode
Former overweight insurance salesman and party-goer, Eric Hinman, shares his incredible 17-year transformation into a 44-year-old hybrid athlete—fitter than 99% of people. This is more than a fitness journey; it's a blueprint for designing a perfect, purpose-driven life through consistency, strategic leverage, and uncompromising self-discipline. Timestamps: #KassidyWarren https://www.instagram.com/kassidy.warren https://www.linkedin.com/in/kassidywarren #EricHinman https://www.instagram.com/erichinman/?hl=en Watch #ForYourOwnGood on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@KassidyWarren
Key moments
- 0:00:00 “how did you become fitter than 99% of people?”
- 0:01:40 “first thing was hiring a personal trainer in my late 20s.”
- 0:10:58 “That's something I do almost every single night.”
- 0:12:39 “I always say the only way to short track success is to surround yourself with people...”
- 0:28:35 “their income, actually get promotions and bonuses when you have a purpose, which the purpose can...”
- 0:29:27 “you want this illusion that you're doing better than you actually are.”
- 0:30:17 “my espresso machine, that was expensive, but that's a process that I get to do every...”
- 0:42:57 “Whole Foods eat well, but then like you do these Iron Mans, you do this stuff...”
Read the full transcript
Auto-generated from the episode captions; may contain small errors.
0:00:00You went from a 28-year-old insurance
0:00:01salesman that was overweight to now a
0:00:0444year-old hybrid athlete. How did you
0:00:06do it? And how did you become fitter
0:00:08than 99% of people? Compounding
0:00:10consistencies more than anything. I got
0:00:12addicted to progress. I'd never been
0:00:14world class at anything before. When I
0:00:16started to kind of smell what that was
0:00:18like, I'm like, I want to be a world
0:00:20class iron man. I'm going to keep doing
0:00:22this. Love the process. I love training.
0:00:24I hate rest days. I'm training to be one
0:00:26of the top people in my age group at
0:00:28High Rocks. I train way more than is
0:00:30necessary. I overtrain. Conversation
0:00:32that I really resonated with David
0:00:34Gogggins and he said, "I don't want
0:00:35anything else. I just want to keep doing
0:00:37what I'm doing now, but better."
0:00:38>> What do you think is stopping most
0:00:39people from even starting?
0:00:40>> Starting. Starting is the hardest part
0:00:42of anything. If you can remove friction
0:00:44from your life, it's going to make
0:00:45everything easier. If you want to build
0:00:47a big tech company, go to Silicon
0:00:49Valley. If you want to be a world-class
0:00:50endurance athlete, go to Boulder. You
0:00:52got to go to pockets where people are
0:00:54going to raise your ceiling.
0:00:55>> What can the average person do to train
0:00:57with purpose? For someone who wants to
0:00:59look good and feel good, I would do
0:01:02>> Eric, you went from a 28-year-old
0:01:05insurance salesman that was overweight,
0:01:08drinking way too much, partying,
0:01:10traveling all over the country to now
0:01:1244year-old hybrid athlete, essentially
0:01:15creating an entirely different version
0:01:18of yourself.
0:01:19>> Mhm.
0:01:19>> And I believe that everyone in this
0:01:21country strives to get out of that trap
0:01:24and into something different for
0:01:25themselves. Mhm.
0:01:26>> How did you do it? And how did you
0:01:28become fitter than 99% of people?
0:01:30>> Compounding consistencies. You know,
0:01:33there was no one day where I was just
0:01:35super human. It was tackling one thing
0:01:38at a time. Understanding purposeful
0:01:40training, getting into triathlon, having
0:01:43lofty goals with triathlon, starting
0:01:45with a sprint distance triathlon, hiring
0:01:47a coach, doing a full Iron Man, getting
0:01:50to the world championships in Iron Man.
0:01:52That was a five-year journey, but it
0:01:54honestly was just like dialing in one
0:01:58thing at a time, getting that on
0:02:00autopilot, and then picking the next
0:02:02thing. So, first thing was hiring a
0:02:04personal trainer in my late 20s. That
0:02:07gave me the structure, accountability,
0:02:09knowledge that I needed to get back into
0:02:11shape. I played three sports in high
0:02:13school. I lifted in college. So, I had
0:02:16the background. I had the foundation
0:02:18built. It was just getting back into a
0:02:20structure of prioritizing that. And
0:02:23that's what the personal trainer did.
0:02:25Five days a week, 30 minute sessions. I
0:02:27hated it for the first one to two
0:02:29months. They were brutal. And then, you
0:02:31know, I started to crave it because I
0:02:33felt so good afterwards. And that led to
0:02:36running again. That led to meeting some
0:02:38friends who had these really fancy bikes
0:02:40with four handlebars on them. And I'm
0:02:41like, "What is that?" They're like,
0:02:42"It's triathlon bike." I'm like, "Tell
0:02:44me more. We're doing a halfiron man.
0:02:46What's a half iron man?" You swim 1.2
0:02:49miles, you bike 56 miles, you run a half
0:02:51marathon. Wow, you can do that in a day.
0:02:54And they're like, "Yeah, five hours,
0:02:55four hours is the top time." So, I was
0:02:58really intrigued with like how far you
0:03:00could push it if you train for it. So,
0:03:03that's ultimately why I look the way I
0:03:06do now is because I've been do doing
0:03:08this for 17 years now. Couple workouts
0:03:12every single day. And I love it, you
0:03:14know? I love the process. I love
0:03:15training. I hate rest days. I I love the
0:03:18way I feel after a training session. And
0:03:20I think more than anything, I got
0:03:22addicted to progress. I really enjoyed
0:03:25the tangible results of just putting in
0:03:29that purposeful effort, getting faster
0:03:31on the run with my heart rate going
0:03:32down. You know, obviously, you can see
0:03:34physical changes of losing body fat and
0:03:36starting to look lean and then muscular
0:03:38from weight training and CrossFit
0:03:40workouts. And you know, obviously when
0:03:43you're uh getting to the Iron Man World
0:03:45Championships, like there's a clue that
0:03:47you did something right to be able to
0:03:49get there.
0:03:49>> How did you go from someone that didn't
0:03:51do anything to having the desire though
0:03:53to like go do Iron Man's and try to be
0:03:56one of the best athletes in the world?
0:03:58>> Yeah, I I think it was just getting
0:03:59addicted to progressing. It was seeing
0:04:03that what I was doing was working and
0:04:05recognizing that if I kept doing it, it
0:04:08was going to lead somewhere far beyond
0:04:11what I ever imagined was possible for
0:04:13myself. You know, I'd never been world
0:04:15class at anything before. And when I
0:04:17started to kind of smell what that was
0:04:19like, I'm like, I want to be a
0:04:20worldclass iron man. I'm going to keep
0:04:22doing this. I see the progression. I
0:04:25see, you know, in two or three years
0:04:26where I could be in this sport if I just
0:04:28keep doing exactly what I'm doing now.
0:04:30So it it was ultimately the progress
0:04:32that was very addicting and the feeling.
0:04:35I had never felt that good before. Prior
0:04:38to training, I was abusing alcohol to
0:04:41feel good, to be vulnerable, to meet
0:04:42people. And when I started to correlate
0:04:46the training to feeling like the best
0:04:49version of myself, feeling vulnerable,
0:04:51feeling like the life of the party
0:04:52without drugs or alcohol, I'm like,
0:04:55well, this is much more sustainable and
0:04:56there's no consequences with it. So, I'm
0:04:58going to take this route instead of this
0:05:00previous route that I was on.
0:05:01>> Yeah. Was there any one moment because
0:05:04I've gone through I'm not a I'm not a
0:05:06world-class athlete yet, but I went
0:05:08through this phase of like, oh, I
0:05:10thought I was doing everything. I was
0:05:12doing the Barry's classes, Orange
0:05:14Theory, F45, getting to the end of the
0:05:17classes, totally exhausted, but
0:05:20realizing after a year of doing that, I
0:05:21didn't really look any different. I
0:05:22didn't really feel like I was a high
0:05:24performance athlete and realizing like I
0:05:27was a little bit delusional about where
0:05:29I was in life.
0:05:31>> Is that what you experience with people
0:05:33like that that haven't gone through this
0:05:35transformation?
0:05:36>> Yeah, I mean, I think there's a couple
0:05:38pieces to that. There's training and
0:05:40there's exercising. And you know, many
0:05:43of the boutique fitness classes, you're
0:05:44burning calories, you're working on your
0:05:46cardiovascular fitness. You know, you're
0:05:48probably going to burn some body fat,
0:05:50but you might not progress in sport, and
0:05:53you might not progress in the aesthetic
0:05:55side if you're not lifting heavy
0:05:58weights, if you're not doing
0:06:00progressions, if you're not training in
0:06:01the right heart rate zones. So, you
0:06:03know, there's a method to progression.
0:06:06And many of those boutique fitness
0:06:08classes, you're just kind of going
0:06:10through the motions to burn some
0:06:11calories. So, you know, that's why you
0:06:13probably didn't see the same results as
0:06:15you may have seen if you know, you had a
0:06:17coach and you were training specifically
0:06:19for some kind of race or you were
0:06:21training for high rocks or you were
0:06:22doing CrossFit. you know, many of those
0:06:24they have like weightlifting
0:06:26progressions and um with cardiovascular
0:06:28endurance sports, they have heart rate
0:06:30zones that you train in. So that you
0:06:32know you're doing your aerobic zone,
0:06:34you're doing your zone 4, you're doing
0:06:35your threshold, you're doing V2 max, and
0:06:37you know, I think oftent times in a
0:06:39boutique fitness class, you're just kind
0:06:41of going at the same gray zone, heart
0:06:44rate zone, where again, you're burning
0:06:46calories, but you're not progressing as
0:06:48fast as you would if you really focused
0:06:51on certain heart rate zones or you
0:06:54focused on complex lifts and
0:06:56periodization and percentages.
0:06:58>> So what should the average person focus
0:07:00on? like what should the when they go
0:07:02into like I want to go train, I want to
0:07:03go
0:07:04>> like get fit or I want to lose weight or
0:07:06I want to like some people don't even
0:07:08know what they want, but what can the
0:07:09average person do to train with purpose
0:07:12versus, you know, just showing up to the
0:07:14gym every day?
0:07:15>> So, what I do is way more than you have
0:07:17to do to be fit. You know, I'm training
0:07:19to be one of the top people in my age
0:07:22group and high rocks and I have
0:07:23ambitions of finishing towards the the
0:07:26front of the amateur pack at Leadville
0:07:27each year. So, I train way more than is
0:07:30necessary. I overtrain. But I would say
0:07:32for someone who wants to look good and
0:07:34feel good, I would do strength training
0:07:37three to four days per week, complex
0:07:39lifts like back squat, front squat,
0:07:41deadlift, overhead pressing, bench
0:07:43press, um maybe some accessory lifts
0:07:46that will help aid those lifts, and then
0:07:48anorobic conditioning immediately after
0:07:51those strength uh sessions. Anorobic
0:07:54conditioning is like highintensity
0:07:56interval training. So, you know, doing
0:07:5820 burpees as fast as you can, rest a
0:08:01minute, minute and a half, 20 burpees as
0:08:03fast as you can, rest, repeat, assault
0:08:06bike intervals, doing 20 calories for
0:08:08time. You know, resting maybe three
0:08:10times what your work time was so you can
0:08:11hit it hard again. Do five or six sets
0:08:13of that. You know, you're spiking your
0:08:15heart rate to where like you want to lay
0:08:16on the floor after that set. It just
0:08:19gasses you. And then, you know, on maybe
0:08:22two of those days, I would space them
0:08:24out. So, it's every other day. And then
0:08:26in between those days, I would do some
0:08:27zone two cardio, like a 45minut run, 45
0:08:30minute bike, 45 minute row. Um, vary it
0:08:33and do something you enjoy. And I always
0:08:36uh tell people to go outside and do it
0:08:38like get sunlight, multitask without
0:08:40multitasking. Like I'd much rather run
0:08:42outside on a trail than on a treadmill
0:08:44in a gym. Um, I really feel like you get
0:08:46way more benefit when you're doing these
0:08:48things outside. And also do it with
0:08:50community. You know, if you can find a
0:08:52CrossFit gym or a high rocks gym where
0:08:54you enjoy training with those people,
0:08:57you know, it's you're it's going to be
0:08:59more longasting than if you're just
0:09:01doing it siloed, unless you need that
0:09:03reprieve. Some people, you know, they're
0:09:05in an office all day talking to people
0:09:07and that's the reprieve to put
0:09:08headphones on. So, I get it. And then I
0:09:11I would say the other thing is just
0:09:12removing friction. Like find something
0:09:15that you can sustain day in and day out.
0:09:17Like if you have to drive 45 minutes to
0:09:20a gym, that probably isn't sustainable
0:09:22if you have a busy schedule. So figure
0:09:25out like what is that fitness that you
0:09:27can easily fit into your schedule so
0:09:29that you do it regularly.
0:09:31>> Yeah. What do you think is stopping most
0:09:32people from even starting
0:09:33>> starting uh that's the hardest part is
0:09:37just like tying up the shoes and going
0:09:39on that run for the first time. So I
0:09:41think starting is the hardest part of
0:09:42anything and just being a be beginner
0:09:44again. It's hard for me, you know, if I
0:09:46switch from doing iron man's to doing
0:09:48CrossFit, like it sucks early on. It
0:09:51It's no fun to be a beginner again. And,
0:09:53you know, starting way below where you
0:09:55feel like you should be because you were
0:09:58at a high level in something else. So, I
0:10:00think it's starting and then it's being
0:10:03consistent. Just that that's that's the
0:10:05superpower that anyone you see who is
0:10:08successful has. They're consistent.
0:10:09That's one of the things I preach on the
0:10:11show is that the difference between
0:10:12anyone that's ever done anything and
0:10:14been successful and those that don't is
0:10:16consistency.
0:10:17>> Yeah. And it's what you're not doing to
0:10:18do what you can do best. You know, I say
0:10:21no to a lot of things to do the same
0:10:23things repetitively. And I don't get
0:10:25bored with them because there's
0:10:26variation within it. You know, I I I
0:10:28time block. So, in the mornings, I'm
0:10:30doing busy work. I go to the gym every
0:10:32day around 8:30. I have meetings from
0:10:3410:30 until 1. I ride my bike or go on a
0:10:37run in the afternoon. And then I have
0:10:39people over to sauna. But within each of
0:10:40those there's variation. There's
0:10:42different people in the mix. I'm, you
0:10:43know, have different meetings with
0:10:44people, different podcasts I'm on. Um,
0:10:47the training is varied. So I I like
0:10:49sticking to a similar structure, but
0:10:51variety within the structure.
0:10:52>> And so what are some of the other like
0:10:54non-negotiable habits that you have that
0:10:56you're super consistent with?
0:10:58>> Recovery, contrast therapy every night.
0:11:00So two to three rounds, sitting in a hot
0:11:02sauna for about 20 minutes, and then
0:11:04cold water for about three minutes. And
0:11:06I do that with others. That's generally
0:11:08when I take in-person meetings. If
0:11:09someone messages me to, you know, hey,
0:11:11can can we meet up? I'm passing through
0:11:13Austin. I own a consumer packaged goods
0:11:15company. Yeah, come on. Come on over in
0:11:17sauna at 5:00 PM tonight. There'll be
0:11:18other people in the mix. So, um,
0:11:20community time, meeting new people,
0:11:23contrast therapy. That's something I do
0:11:25almost every single night. And then most
0:11:27days I do two workouts. I almost always
0:11:29do at least one workout a day. And then
0:11:31just progression in business. So, I'm
0:11:33creating content every single day. um
0:11:36you know working on a couple new
0:11:37eventbased companies. So just actionable
0:11:41items for each of those things so that
0:11:43three years from now you know that
0:11:44they've turned it into something.
0:11:46>> Is that a filter for you for friends and
0:11:48community and anyone that you're working
0:11:50with is you got to come sit in the sauna
0:11:52in the cold plunge with me
0:11:53>> kind of. Yeah. I mean I don't do it
0:11:55intentionally but it's definitely a
0:11:57filter. I mean many people are like you
0:11:59invite anyone over to sauna with you and
0:12:01I'm like yeah but people who follow me
0:12:02they follow me for a reason. and they're
0:12:04into a wellness-based lifestyle and they
0:12:06know I like to do hard things. So, if
0:12:08you're going to be in the mix with me,
0:12:09you know, you're probably going to be
0:12:10hitting a hard workout or you're going
0:12:12to be, you know, in a hot sauna with me
0:12:14and you're jumping in cold water.
0:12:15>> And so, how important is proximity to
0:12:18people that are doing important
0:12:20competitive highle things?
0:12:22>> I think it's huge. Again, friction. Uh,
0:12:24if you can remove friction from your
0:12:26life, it's going to make everything
0:12:28easier. It's going to make your goals
0:12:29easier. So, if you want to build a big
0:12:31tech company, go to Silicon Valley or be
0:12:33in Austin or be in New York City. If you
0:12:35want to be a world-class endurance
0:12:36athlete, go to Boulder, go to Tucson.
0:12:39You got to go to pockets where, you
0:12:41know, people are going to raise your
0:12:42ceiling. And that's what I have in
0:12:44between Denver and Austin. In Denver, I
0:12:46have world-class endurance friends. And
0:12:48in Austin, I have world-class content
0:12:50creator friends. So yeah, I mean I
0:12:52certainly surround myself with people
0:12:54who not only raise my ceiling but just
0:12:57allow me to see what's possible and I
0:13:00can learn from them. You know, when I
0:13:01was in Syracuse, New York, there was
0:13:03like one person in my town who had done
0:13:05Leadville. And now almost all of my
0:13:07friend group in Colorado has done
0:13:08Leadville. It's normalized. So you want
0:13:10to get around people who normalize what
0:13:13you're trying to achieve. And I always
0:13:15say the only way to short track success
0:13:17is to surround yourself with people
0:13:19who've gotten where you want to go and
0:13:20learn from them.
0:13:22>> And so how does that compare to
0:13:2428-year-old Eric?
0:13:25>> I I was going through the motions more
0:13:27then. I mean 28-year-old Eric, I was
0:13:29starting to figure it out, but I was
0:13:31still in the process of figuring it out.
0:13:33And I'm still figuring it out. But I've
0:13:36learned a lot and I've surrounded myself
0:13:37with a lot of people that have helped me
0:13:41figure out a lot of things out that I
0:13:43wanted to achieve. 28-year-old Eric was
0:13:45still in Syracuse, New York, which is a
0:13:46small city that doesn't really attract
0:13:48risktakers.
0:13:50And I started to feel like an anomaly in
0:13:52what I was doing. From 28 to 34, that
0:13:55was really my transition period where I
0:13:57went from just kind of going through the
0:13:58motions, chasing the public perception
0:14:01of success, working hard, buying the
0:14:03nice suits, the nice watches, the car,
0:14:05the condo to like really figuring out
0:14:08what I was passionate about and defining
0:14:11my own day and figuring out my own
0:14:14perfect day for what I enjoyed doing.
0:14:16That happened over that six-year period
0:14:18from 28 to 34. And then once I figured
0:14:21that out, I recognized that I was in the
0:14:23wrong place. I was playing in the wrong
0:14:24pond. I had to go somewhere else where
0:14:26there were more people who played in
0:14:27that same pond that I played in.
0:14:28>> How did it feel leaving Syracuse?
0:14:31>> Felt risky. And the hardest part,
0:14:34honestly, was my parents didn't really
0:14:36approve of it. I had this amazing life
0:14:38in in Syracuse from the outside looking
0:14:40in. I had businesses there. I had nice
0:14:43things. You know, I I was successful in
0:14:46the public's perception of success. But
0:14:49I didn't really feel like I was thriving
0:14:51anymore. I just kind of felt empty and
0:14:54alone there for what how I was training
0:14:57and the things I wanted to build. And
0:15:00whenever I would go to LA, New York,
0:15:02bigger cities where, you know, big
0:15:04cities attract risktakers, they attract
0:15:07people who move there for a reason
0:15:09instead of, you know, just kind of being
0:15:11stuck there, born and raised there. And
0:15:12when I started to surround myself with
0:15:14some of those people, I I recognized
0:15:16that's who I wanted to be around more
0:15:18often. And then when I went to Colorado
0:15:20and the sun was shining every day and
0:15:21people were hiking mountains and riding
0:15:23mountain bikes, I'm like, "Oh my god,
0:15:24this is my fairy tale land. I need to be
0:15:26here."
0:15:26>> That's right. Yeah. I live up outside of
0:15:28Seattle and all of that is there. And
0:15:32still San Diego, Austin, New York, I
0:15:34travel to quite a bit because the energy
0:15:36is just alive and I'm inspired. I'm
0:15:38active. Like everything is going on. But
0:15:39then back in Seattle, the nature,
0:15:41mountain biking, hiking, trail running,
0:15:43like all of that is like really
0:15:44important to me. Being on the water,
0:15:46enjoying the outdoors during summer.
0:15:48>> And to each their own, you know, just
0:15:49because those things appeal to you and I
0:15:51doesn't mean they have to appeal to
0:15:52someone else. But what I do think is
0:15:54important is figuring out what makes you
0:15:56thrive and then designing your own
0:15:58perfect day. What does that look like?
0:16:00>> Should everybody move out of their
0:16:01hometown? Uh, I don't know that everyone
0:16:03should move out of their hometown, but I
0:16:05think it's important to travel to see
0:16:06what else is out there to figure out if
0:16:09your hometown is the right place for
0:16:10you. I mean, you know, had I been born
0:16:12in uh Denver or Austin or LA, like I may
0:16:16not have left those places, but who
0:16:18knows? You know, also the grass is
0:16:20oftentimes greener and you want a taste
0:16:22of something you didn't have when you
0:16:24were growing up. Um, I mean, look, I had
0:16:26a great upbringing. I loved growing up
0:16:28where I did. I just don't know that it
0:16:30serves me now and how I live live my
0:16:33life. If I had a family and, you know,
0:16:35wanted to live in a more solitude place
0:16:37and just be with my family all the time,
0:16:39then I think upstate New York is an
0:16:40incredible place. But, you know, if I'm
0:16:42building businesses and chasing athletic
0:16:44goals, then, you know, you got to go to
0:16:46a different pocket where people are
0:16:47doing that.
0:16:48>> That's right. And so, you've talked
0:16:49about your perfect day. What is your
0:16:51perfect day? and walk me through some of
0:16:54the experience of like figuring out how
0:16:58that works for you and what it means to
0:16:59you.
0:17:00>> Yeah. So, one of the keys for me is I
0:17:02really enjoy progression and I enjoy
0:17:04skill-based activities. So, I have a
0:17:07fancy espresso machine that I just
0:17:09bought. I had another one previous to
0:17:11that. So, waking up and then just trying
0:17:13to make the perfect cup of espresso for
0:17:16myself and my girlfriend. I love doing
0:17:17that. I like waking up with like purpose
0:17:20and something to look forward to and
0:17:22something to perfect. So that's the
0:17:24first thing I do is I turn that baby on
0:17:26and get it heated up and try to pour the
0:17:28perfect shot.
0:17:28>> Same. Same.
0:17:29>> Yep. And then try to steam the perfect
0:17:31milk. It's crazy how many intricacies go
0:17:33into the perfect cappuccino.
0:17:35>> So I enjoy doing that. And then you know
0:17:38mornings are when I try to get stuff
0:17:39done that I know I won't get to later in
0:17:41the day. So an email that requires 30
0:17:43minutes of thought. you know, putting
0:17:45out some content that requires 30
0:17:47minutes, 60 minutes of just editing and
0:17:50figuring out a concept. I try to do that
0:17:53first thing in the morning because I
0:17:54know the rest of the day is going to be
0:17:56go go go. 8:30 a.m. is when I'm training
0:17:58right now. That's generally either like
0:18:00a CrossFit, strength, or high rocks type
0:18:03session. I program my first my hardest
0:18:06workout to be my first workout of the
0:18:07day. So, that's what I execute on um as
0:18:10my first workout. That's generally at
0:18:12squatch, which which is just a
0:18:13five-minute bike ride from my house. So,
0:18:16remove friction to easily be be able to
0:18:18go to a community based gym that I
0:18:19really enjoy going to. And then back to
0:18:22the house. All of my meetings are
0:18:23scheduled from 10:30 until about 1:30
0:18:26each day. So, I'm on calls from 10:30
0:18:28until 1:30 or podcasts. And then 1:30,
0:18:32I'm generally starting to get the itch
0:18:35to exercise again. So, that's when I do
0:18:37my aerobic session. It's usually either
0:18:40a 90 minute to two-hour ride or a 45 to
0:18:4360 minute run. I go back and forth
0:18:45between the two. I feel like my body
0:18:47responds best when I don't do the same
0:18:49thing, you know, each day. I'm I'm
0:18:51recovering from the bike to run or I'm
0:18:54recovering from the the run. I bike the
0:18:56next day and then usually have another
0:18:59block of calls, meetings, um creating
0:19:03content from like 3 until 5. And then
0:19:05people start to come over around five
0:19:06o'clock to do contrast therapy at our
0:19:08house. Here in Austin, I go out to
0:19:10dinner most nights. Back in Denver, cook
0:19:12dinner most nights, barbecue, and then
0:19:15try to learn something for about 45
0:19:17minutes in the evening. Generally,
0:19:18that's watching YouTube or listening to
0:19:20a podcast, wind down with my girlfriend,
0:19:22sleeping by 9, 9:30, wake up again the
0:19:25next day around 6.
0:19:26>> What did it take from you to like
0:19:28develop this whole perfect day?
0:19:30>> Yeah, delegate, automate, eliminate. I
0:19:33went through a period of time where I
0:19:35figured out what only I could do and I
0:19:37could do best. And then I started
0:19:38delegating, automating, or eliminating
0:19:40all of those things that someone else
0:19:43could do better than I could. And I
0:19:45honestly feel like I'm in a chapter of
0:19:46life right now where I need to do that
0:19:48again. Um, that was back in like 2011,
0:19:5112, 13 when I started that process. And
0:19:53I haven't thoroughly done that again
0:19:56since those years. I got to a place
0:19:59where pretty much everything like my
0:20:02phone wasn't ringing. I had a secretary
0:20:05answering, you know, all of my calls.
0:20:07Now I've gotten back to a place where
0:20:09I'm doing way more than I should be
0:20:11doing just because I've said yes to a
0:20:12lot of opportunities these last four or
0:20:14five years. So, you know, reminder to
0:20:16myself like do that again. But being
0:20:19mindful, just understanding like this is
0:20:21where I should spend my time. This is my
0:20:24superpower. This is what other people
0:20:26can do better than I can. And obviously
0:20:28you need resources to be able to to do
0:20:30that. So you need to figure out how to
0:20:32build a business or some income that you
0:20:34can then leverage to get some of your
0:20:37either time back or um you know just
0:20:40outsourcing things so that you know you
0:20:42can do what you do and you do best. Like
0:20:43for me that's oftentimes the creative
0:20:46behind the content that I that I shoot
0:20:48and in-person stuff you know inerson
0:20:50meetings, hosting people, hosting
0:20:52events, hosting founders only events.
0:20:54I'm rolling out the world's toughest
0:20:56mile in 2026 in five cities. So many of
0:21:00those things like I need to be at. I
0:21:02enjoy the interaction with people. I
0:21:05enjoy, you know, creating content around
0:21:07it. I enjoy building the brand. But a
0:21:09lot of the other stuff can be outsourced
0:21:11to others to do.
0:21:12>> And so what are the measurements or the
0:21:14markers around uh delegate, automate,
0:21:17and eliminate? Like how did you like did
0:21:19you feel it in your body? Were you
0:21:20writing things down?
0:21:21>> Wrote it down.
0:21:22>> Yeah.
0:21:22>> Yep. Just made lists. And same with like
0:21:25designing the perfect day. Like here's
0:21:27the environment that I thrive in. These
0:21:30are the conversations that I had today
0:21:32where I was just in complete flow state.
0:21:34Um these are the activities I was doing
0:21:36where I was just completely in the
0:21:38moment. I didn't want to be doing
0:21:39anything else. I made that list and then
0:21:41I made a list where my mind was
0:21:43wandering. I was doodling. I was wishing
0:21:45I was somewhere else. I was wish I I
0:21:47wished I was doing something else. I
0:21:48wished I was with someone else. and then
0:21:51started to eliminate all of those things
0:21:52and and build my perfect day around
0:21:54these things where I was present and I
0:21:57felt like I was giving value and getting
0:21:58value.
0:21:59>> And what are some of the conversations
0:22:01where you had to eliminate?
0:22:03>> You know, some are easy. You just let
0:22:04them go. And then others are I mean
0:22:09friends certainly where you know you
0:22:11just don't align anymore and you you
0:22:13have to start saying no to going out to
0:22:16a 900 p.m. dinner that you know is going
0:22:18to turn into drinks afterwards and
0:22:20you're going to get some heat for that.
0:22:21But I feel like once you become selfish
0:22:26and people see that you're thriving in
0:22:28the selfish things that you're doing,
0:22:31like they start to understand, oh, okay,
0:22:33he he said no because this is what he
0:22:35says yes to. And like many of my friends
0:22:38know like when I'm working out, they
0:22:39know when I'm doing contrast therapy,
0:22:41and if they want to be in the mix, then
0:22:44they're going to come when I do my
0:22:46workouts, they're going to come and do
0:22:47contrast therapy with me. So, I think
0:22:49it's a superpower to be selfish with
0:22:51your time and other people will respect
0:22:54that when they see that you're trying to
0:22:55progress in something.
0:22:56>> Yeah. The impression I'm getting of you
0:22:58is just someone that's completely and
0:23:00utterly comfortable with who they are
0:23:01and found the things that they love to
0:23:03do and your purpose is in just living
0:23:06your best life for yourself.
0:23:08>> Yeah. Just like being unapologetic in
0:23:09the things that you really enjoy doing.
0:23:11And granted, there's glass balls you
0:23:12can't drop, you know, family, mortgage,
0:23:14and you need to figure out how to make
0:23:16those things work. But I think once you
0:23:18figure out what those glass balls are,
0:23:20you pour your time and energy into those
0:23:22things and then you have a couple other
0:23:23things that you pour your time and
0:23:25energy into. I I think too many of us,
0:23:27we have too many things that we do
0:23:29without just doing a few things really
0:23:31really well. uh a conversation that I
0:23:35really resonated with. I I'm not sure if
0:23:37it's in Jesse's book or if it was
0:23:40YouTube or something that I saw, but he
0:23:42was at a New Year's party with David
0:23:44Gogggins and everyone was going around
0:23:46stating their New Year's resolutions.
0:23:48And I got to David Gogggins and he said,
0:23:50"I don't want anything else. I just want
0:23:52to keep doing what I'm doing now but
0:23:53better." And I really resonate with
0:23:55that. Like, I want to keep getting
0:23:57better at the things that I really enjoy
0:23:59doing. I love mountain biking. I want to
0:24:01keep get getting better at mountain
0:24:02biking. By playing pickle ball or
0:24:04basketball or saying yes to a volleyball
0:24:05tournament, it doesn't progress me in
0:24:07mountain biking. If anything, it risks
0:24:09getting injured for something that I
0:24:11would rather be doing. So, I'm just very
0:24:14careful with my yeses. And, you know, I
0:24:16I say no a lot of the time.
0:24:18>> Do you identify as an entrepreneur?
0:24:19>> 100%.
0:24:20>> Okay. All right. Yeah. I just I don't I
0:24:21haven't heard you say the word
0:24:22entrepreneur before, but like you are.
0:24:24And and this is one of the entrepreneurs
0:24:26curse
0:24:26>> is doing too many things.
0:24:28>> It definitely is. And you know, I've
0:24:31learned that I really like early stage
0:24:33businesses. And while I enjoy building
0:24:36businesses, I don't enjoy managing
0:24:40people, the customer service, there's
0:24:41there's aspects of business and
0:24:43entrepreneur entrepreneurship that I
0:24:45don't enjoy, but I really like starting
0:24:47things and I really like helping other
0:24:49people start things. So, you know, I
0:24:51figured out that that pond to play in
0:24:54with the brands I work with. Like I'm
0:24:57very good at helping an early stage
0:24:59company build their brand.
0:25:01>> Okay. Because you talked about leverage
0:25:02and I'm I'm in real estate and I love
0:25:04leverage. It's the reason that real
0:25:05estate is is one of the best investments
0:25:07that you can make. Yep. And if you don't
0:25:08understand leverage, then you don't
0:25:10understand how to go make money.
0:25:11>> Yeah.
0:25:11>> So, how have you used leverage not just
0:25:14in, you know, real estate or finance,
0:25:16but how have you used leverage to create
0:25:18your perfect life?
0:25:19>> Well, social media is definitely
0:25:21leverage. You know, I I post something
0:25:23and it gets tens of thousands of views
0:25:25every single day. So that's massive
0:25:27leverage. Um I I feel like over time as
0:25:30you accumulate
0:25:32um a a network of people uh knowledge,
0:25:37money, you can leverage those things to
0:25:43attract opportunities rather than chase
0:25:45opportunities. And I feel like that's
0:25:46where I'm at now is I attract a lot as
0:25:50opposed to having to chase a lot. But it
0:25:53took chasing to get to that place where
0:25:55I can attract. But I think it's being
0:25:58really smart about building something,
0:26:01whether it's residual income, a real
0:26:04estate portfolio, a following on social
0:26:06media, personal brand, so that
0:26:09eventually you can start to attract
0:26:11opportunities rather than just
0:26:12constantly having to chase
0:26:14opportunities.
0:26:15>> That's right. Yeah. And I I spent a
0:26:17little over 5 years building my real
0:26:18estate portfolio and just went hard,
0:26:20like harder than I probably should have
0:26:22and got really isolated and like
0:26:25separated from the world, but it was
0:26:26like this is the way out. This is the
0:26:28way out. And and it was it it created
0:26:30leverage for me to be able to go live
0:26:31this life where I can start the podcast,
0:26:33I can create content, I can go like do
0:26:36anything I want during the day
0:26:37essentially.
0:26:37>> Yep. Yeah. So,
0:26:38>> I did that for seven years with my
0:26:40property and casualty insurance
0:26:41business, residual income, and it led me
0:26:44to a place where I could start taking
0:26:46risks and I could start doing these side
0:26:48hustles that eventually turned into the
0:26:50main hustle.
0:26:50>> Yeah. And so, do you still own your
0:26:52insurance company today?
0:26:52>> I do.
0:26:53>> Yeah. And so, that's still paying you.
0:26:54>> Yep.
0:26:54>> Right. Yeah. You just like What does
0:26:56that look like for you to own that
0:26:58company now?
0:26:59>> My father runs it for me and I might
0:27:01spend I don't know five hours a year
0:27:02working on it. So it's very little time
0:27:04and the business still does exactly what
0:27:07it did 15 years ago and I walked away.
0:27:09>> Okay. So help entrepreneurs out there
0:27:12understand
0:27:14how they can get to that place both from
0:27:17a a financial perspective but also from
0:27:20a mindset perspective of oh I I get to
0:27:23let go of this stuff
0:27:25>> to actually grow.
0:27:26>> Yeah. I I mean I think you need to build
0:27:28a business that can stand on its own
0:27:29without you and then finding someone who
0:27:32can operate that business for you and
0:27:35you know the first time is the hardest.
0:27:36Once you've done it once you understand
0:27:39some of the bits and pieces that will
0:27:41allow you to do that again and do it
0:27:43again faster. So it's picking
0:27:46opportunities where you're not just
0:27:47trading time for money. It it's where
0:27:49things are going to compound fast
0:27:52whether it's real estate, whether it's a
0:27:54residual income business. So that's
0:27:56that's my advice to young people is
0:27:58don't just trade time for money. Either
0:28:01build your own business or pick an
0:28:02opportunity where you're building
0:28:03residual income where you can then
0:28:05eventually leverage that residual income
0:28:08to go off and do something that you
0:28:09really enjoy.
0:28:10>> That's right. I I have a community where
0:28:12a lot of people are still in their W2s,
0:28:14right? And what I teach, and this is how
0:28:16I did it, take use your job as your
0:28:19leverage to go buy as much real estate
0:28:21as possible. And then that becomes your
0:28:23ability to sustain yourself once you're
0:28:25ready to leave your job. But most people
0:28:28don't want to go start a business on
0:28:29their own. They don't want to go
0:28:30through, you know, the hell that it
0:28:32takes to really to do that. So they can
0:28:34stay in their job. They can leverage
0:28:35their income, actually get promotions
0:28:37and bonuses when you have a purpose,
0:28:39which the purpose can be quitting that
0:28:41job by buying more real estate.
0:28:43>> For sure. Yeah. And when you're young, I
0:28:45mean, when I was in my 20s, I wanted to
0:28:48impress. You know, I spent a lot of
0:28:50money on fancy things to for status. And
0:28:54that's a trap I think many people fall
0:28:56into. Instead of being in your 20s and
0:28:58being careful with money, saving money,
0:29:00investing in real estate, investing in
0:29:02the market, so that when you're 38, you
0:29:04have this nice nest egg that you know is
0:29:06paying you interest. So, I could have
0:29:09done a better job in my 20s with, you
0:29:12know, not buying flashy things and, you
0:29:14know, I would have been even further
0:29:15ahead in my 40s had I done that. So,
0:29:18lesson learned and easier said than
0:29:21done, though. You know, I feel like in
0:29:22your 20s, like that's a part of many
0:29:24people's personality is like you want to
0:29:27you want this illusion that you're doing
0:29:28better than you actually are. So, what
0:29:30shifted for you then to go from the
0:29:32illusion to just
0:29:33>> I would say it was competing and fitness
0:29:36and just feeling really good in my own
0:29:38skin and progressing in something other
0:29:41than just making more money. I just felt
0:29:43so satisfied like hitting a 10 mile run
0:29:46or going for a 50 mile ride. And I said
0:29:49to myself, why am I so concerned chasing
0:29:52more money if this is what is really
0:29:55fulfilling for me? And luckily I've been
0:29:57able to build a business around working
0:29:59out a lot. So and again I think it was
0:30:03just doing something that I was really
0:30:05passionate about and then opportunity
0:30:07came knocking at my door eventually.
0:30:08>> How strong is the correlation between
0:30:11transforming your body to your level of
0:30:14success?
0:30:15>> I think it's almost one to one. You know
0:30:17when I work out I feel better. I I'm
0:30:19sharp. I'm energized. I don't have a
0:30:21lull in the afternoon. So I I think I
0:30:25think yeah physical exercise is directly
0:30:29correlated to mental well-being,
0:30:31creativity, mental clarity, and with
0:30:34those things comes better decisions.
0:30:37>> And what about the level of fulfillment
0:30:39that you have compared to the level of
0:30:42financial success?
0:30:44>> I mean, it's more fulfilling. I I really
0:30:46enjoy that 40-minute workout I did this
0:30:48morning. You know, it was hard in the
0:30:50moment and then I was glad that I did it
0:30:52afterwards and I feel great now. And I
0:30:55can't say the same for a lot of the nice
0:30:58things that I've bought over the years.
0:31:00You know, my espresso machine, that was
0:31:02expensive, but that's a process that I
0:31:04get to do every single day. My mountain
0:31:06bike, that was expensive, but that's a
0:31:08process that I get to work on every
0:31:10single day. I've bought expensive cars,
0:31:13you know. I I think there's something to
0:31:14be said for like comfort in a vehicle,
0:31:17but you know, I'm not buying an
0:31:19expensive sports car because I'm not
0:31:21that into like driving a car fast. I get
0:31:24my fulfillment from exercise, so I'll
0:31:26spend my money on a fancy bike. So, it's
0:31:30figuring out like what are those things
0:31:31that are really fulfilling versus what
0:31:34are those things where you're getting it
0:31:36because you're trying to impress someone
0:31:39or just, you know, the general public
0:31:41perception of how successful you are.
0:31:44And that is just like a very short-lived
0:31:46dopamine hit.
0:31:47>> Yeah. How can someone recognize that
0:31:49they are just trying to impress other
0:31:51people? uh if it's a short-lived
0:31:53dopamine hit and it's not you know
0:31:55fulfilling on a regular basis I think
0:31:58that's a sign that you might be doing
0:32:00something wrong. You measure everything
0:32:02right? What is the importance of
0:32:06measuring your fitness levels, your
0:32:08testosterone, your sleep, your your zone
0:32:112, your zone 3? What does it all mean to
0:32:14be able to measure all of your fitness
0:32:16levels?
0:32:16>> Yeah, I mean I used to be much more
0:32:18maniacal about this. I'm not quite as
0:32:20bad now, but you know, if you're not
0:32:22measuring it, then you don't know if
0:32:23you're improving. So, I think
0:32:25measurement is important if you want to
0:32:27progress in in something. You know, now
0:32:29I'm to a point where a lot of what I do
0:32:31is just fuel based. I'm I'm certainly
0:32:33tracking my heart rate and I'm tracking
0:32:35my watts on a bike and I'm watching my
0:32:38run pace and seeing if they're getting
0:32:39better. But, you know, oftentimes in the
0:32:41gym, I'm not progressing in certain
0:32:44things anymore because I'm in my mid-4s.
0:32:47So, it's difficult to continue
0:32:49progressing and everything fitness-based
0:32:50as you age. But, um, if you're trying to
0:32:55get far in something, the people who are
0:32:58at the top of the game, they're tracking
0:33:01pretty much everything. They're maniacal
0:33:03about it. You have to be to be world
0:33:05class at something. Um, so it's
0:33:08incredibly important to understand if
0:33:10you're improving and if you're not
0:33:12improving, what needs to be tinkered
0:33:14with. And I think having a coach is
0:33:16incredibly important. I had a triathlon
0:33:18coach. Um I still follow programming
0:33:21even though I could easily, you know,
0:33:23just write my own stuff. I think it's
0:33:25important to have structure and to have
0:33:28a coach who may understand you better
0:33:30than even you understand you. For
0:33:32someone like me, I'll push myself too
0:33:34hard. I won't recover enough. if I won't
0:33:36take rest days, if I don't have some
0:33:39kind of structure or a coach who's
0:33:41looking out for me and being like, "Hey,
0:33:43you know, you're not progressing because
0:33:44you're massively overtrained. You're
0:33:46doing too much. Back off a bit so that
0:33:48you can hit this next workout harder."
0:33:49>> What are some of the metrics that are
0:33:51like really important though for anyone
0:33:52starting out or should they just like
0:33:53not even measure at all?
0:33:55>> No, I I think measurement is important
0:33:57because you want to see tangible
0:33:59improvement. So heart rate for aerobic
0:34:01training and anorobic training like
0:34:04understanding what your zone two is,
0:34:06understanding what percentage of the
0:34:07time you should be in zone 2 based on
0:34:09your goals. You know, if you're doing
0:34:10endurance events like iron man's and
0:34:13ultramarathons, most of your training
0:34:15should be in zone 2 with some threshold
0:34:18and some V2 max mixed in. Um, if you're
0:34:21a CrossFit athlete, then that's a lot of
0:34:23threshold and V2 max training. If you're
0:34:24a high rock athlete, that's a lot of
0:34:26threshold and zone 2 training. So, like
0:34:29what type of athlete do you want to be?
0:34:31Dialing in your training based on those
0:34:33heart rate zones. And for strength
0:34:35training progressions, following a
0:34:37strength training program, and you know,
0:34:39where do you want to improve? If you're
0:34:41a runner or biker, then leg strength is
0:34:43going to be really important and midline
0:34:44strength and not getting injured. So,
0:34:46you know, figuring out what those
0:34:48exercises are that you need to do to be
0:34:50able to improve your running power and
0:34:53yeah, just like periodizing things. So
0:34:55going through various progressions with
0:34:58percentages and you know having down
0:35:00weeks where you're not doing much so
0:35:02that your body can recover so you can
0:35:04hit it harder again uh the next week.
0:35:07I'm a victim of this and many people in
0:35:08the endurance world are victims of this.
0:35:11You need to recover enough so that you
0:35:13can hit a hard a workout hard enough on
0:35:15like a threshold day that you get the
0:35:17benefit from it. And it's very easy once
0:35:20you've done a lot of zone 2 training to
0:35:22only want to do zone 2 training. And you
0:35:25can get pretty darn fit doing that. But
0:35:27if you really want to advance, you do
0:35:29have to do some hard efforts. And you
0:35:31need to be recovered enough to hit those
0:35:33hard efforts.
0:35:34>> Yeah. It's like the difference between
0:35:36what you were talking about
0:35:37purpose-based training. Yep. And so, how
0:35:39do you how do you figure out because
0:35:41I've been going to the gym for a while
0:35:42now and there's people in my gym that
0:35:45have been going for a year and they look
0:35:48the same as they did a year ago.
0:35:50>> Like, how does someone avoid just not
0:35:52looking the same or get what they want
0:35:54out of what they're doing?
0:35:55>> Yeah. I mean, tricking the body. So, you
0:35:57know, that's why the percentages, the
0:35:59periodiz periodiz
0:36:01I can't say it. Periodizing.
0:36:03>> Periodizing
0:36:04>> the training. Um, so that you know you
0:36:06have these buildups and then these build
0:36:08downs and these buildups and build downs
0:36:10and then like you don't know what the
0:36:12people are doing outside of the training
0:36:13sessions. What kind of sleep are they
0:36:15getting? How much stress is in their
0:36:16life? What are their hor hormones look
0:36:18like? What are they eating? Like there's
0:36:20a lot of components to it where you can
0:36:23go to the gym every day, but if you have
0:36:24pizza every night and you sleep five
0:36:25hours and you have shitty relationships
0:36:27and you hate your job, you know that's
0:36:29going to affect how you look.
0:36:30>> So how much does that stuff affect how
0:36:32people look or how they perform inside
0:36:34of the gym? I think it affects you a
0:36:36lot, especially sleep and stress. You
0:36:38know, if you're really stressed out,
0:36:39that oftent times will mean that you're
0:36:42probably not sleeping well. And if
0:36:43you're not sleeping well, you're
0:36:45generally making poor decisions
0:36:46throughout the day. Both eating
0:36:48decisions and um yeah, they have a
0:36:51massive effect on how you're going to
0:36:53look, how you're going to feel, and your
0:36:55energy levels to be able to train.
0:36:57>> Okay. Okay. So, training with purpose
0:36:59for an Iron Man
0:37:02or I know you did the rim to rim to rim,
0:37:04right?
0:37:05>> That was hard.
0:37:05>> Tell me about the rim to rim to rim.
0:37:06It's it's a it's a dream of mine and I
0:37:09think about it. I'm like, how would I
0:37:10ever be able to do that?
0:37:11>> So, rim to rim to rim for those
0:37:12unfamiliar is the Grand Canyon. You
0:37:15start at the south rim, go to the north
0:37:17rim, back to the south rim. It's 44
0:37:20miles. It is 10,800
0:37:23ft of elevation gain and descent. and
0:37:27going down the south rim to start. You
0:37:29go down 6.7 mi and 5,500 ft right out of
0:37:33the gate, which crushes your quads for
0:37:36the rest of the adventure. The canyon
0:37:37floor is pretty flat. And then the north
0:37:40rim is not quite as steep of an incline,
0:37:42but let's call it maybe
0:37:457 to eight miles up. And you know, you
0:37:47got to go another 5,500 feet up right
0:37:49back down. Um, it's hot. It's exposed
0:37:53the entire time to the sun. And
0:37:56my average heart rate was 107, which for
0:37:59many people that is like a brisk walk.
0:38:02So I wasn't aerobically challenged, but
0:38:05I didn't want to take another step 10
0:38:07hours in because all of my little
0:38:09stability muscles in my ankles, my hips,
0:38:13my lower back were just rocked because I
0:38:16hadn't spent that much time on my feet
0:38:19walking. So, it requires training and it
0:38:22requires just time under on your feet.
0:38:25You know, spending five or six hours
0:38:27like if you only have access to a
0:38:29treadmill, like put that treadmill at
0:38:31the highest incline and just walk on it
0:38:33for six hours. That's the type of
0:38:35training that it requires. So, all of
0:38:37these different things require different
0:38:39training and you're going to be limited
0:38:42by different things. So, for me, that
0:38:44was tendon, ligament, stability, muscle
0:38:46strength that limited me. So, you know,
0:38:48the next time I do it, I would massively
0:38:51ramp up my trail running volume and my
0:38:53hiking volume to be able to withstand
0:38:56just that much time on my feet. That was
0:38:5714 hours on my feet. So, it was
0:39:00different than an iron man, but it was
0:39:02as hard as an iron man for just, you
0:39:04know, energy-wise and all my little
0:39:06stability muscles that were just rocked
0:39:08by the end of it.
0:39:09>> Yeah, elevation's no joke. Especially on
0:39:10even terrain, your your ankles, if you
0:39:13don't train outdoors for those types of
0:39:14races, Yep. your ankles will
0:39:16>> deabilitating. Yeah, you just like can't
0:39:18even do anything after that point. Yeah.
0:39:21My wife did a uh 200 mile bike race,
0:39:23sail to Portland, and the number one
0:39:25piece of advice that she got when she
0:39:27did it was just time in the saddle.
0:39:29>> Yeah.
0:39:29>> Just time in the saddle because that's
0:39:30going to be one of the hardest things.
0:39:32>> Yeah. Aerobically, it's a low effort.
0:39:34Those long long sessions, they're low,
0:39:36low effort, but it it just takes so long
0:39:39to build the tendon and ligament
0:39:41strength you need for it. I mean, that's
0:39:43why so many endurance athletes are in
0:39:46their 40s and 50s. Like, you see guys in
0:39:48their late 40s and even early 50s
0:39:50winning these ultramarathons. I mean,
0:39:53how old is David Gogggins right now and
0:39:55he's still finishing like top five? Cam
0:39:56Haynes just did the Coca-Cola and I want
0:40:00to say he was like top 15. So, and he's
0:40:0356 57 years old. So, yeah. I mean, it
0:40:06takes years to build that type of tendon
0:40:08and ligament strength for those, you
0:40:11know, 72-hour outings.
0:40:14>> What did you learn about your mind
0:40:17during the rimto rimto rim?
0:40:18>> I mean, your mind is definitely going to
0:40:20go before your body. Like, your mind is
0:40:22going to tell you you can quit, you can
0:40:24walk, you can go slower than you need
0:40:25to, and you just got to if you can push
0:40:27past that. And most people can push past
0:40:30that physically, but their mind is going
0:40:32to tell them that that they can't go
0:40:33anymore. So, and you could condition
0:40:36your mind to be more tolerant of it, to
0:40:38just kind of sit in that pain cave. And
0:40:40you know, for me, that's just my
0:40:42workouts I do every day. That's my sauna
0:40:44sessions. That's the cold exposure. You
0:40:46can you can teach your mind to be
0:40:48resilient to stress.
0:40:49>> And what was your nutrition like on the
0:40:52rimto rimto rim?
0:40:53>> Nutrition there was probably
0:40:56I don't know probably 300 to 400
0:40:59calories per hour. Maybe 60 grams of
0:41:03carbs would be a guesstimate. Again, it
0:41:05wasn't a high like aerobic effort. I
0:41:08would up that for something like
0:41:09Leadville Mountain Bike Race where it's
0:41:11an eight hour day. I'm going to have
0:41:12more grams of carbs per hour, more
0:41:14calories per hour because I'm going at a
0:41:16higher heart rate zone. But for that,
0:41:19you know, it was just getting 400ish
0:41:22calories in every hour so that you
0:41:24continue to have the energy necessary to
0:41:27keep pushing forward. Um, I I feel like
0:41:30the the 4 to 10hour events are where
0:41:36nutrition really comes into play. And
0:41:38many guys now, I mean, they're
0:41:41experimenting with 200 grams of carbs an
0:41:43hour, 400 or 800 plus calories per hour
0:41:47to fuel the output necessary to go sub
0:41:51seven hours in an Iron Man. Um, yeah. I
0:41:55feel like we're just now starting to
0:41:57really understand what the body is
0:42:00capable of with the appropriate amount
0:42:03of carbs in your system.
0:42:04>> Like how do you even eat that much?
0:42:06>> You practice. You practice in training
0:42:09so that you know it's not new on race
0:42:11day. But you Yeah, you got to train your
0:42:13gut just like you train your body to
0:42:15withstand that level of carbohydrate.
0:42:17when I switched to uh building because I
0:42:20did a I did like six months of
0:42:22essentially a a cut or a fat loss
0:42:25weightlifting program and then now I'm
0:42:26in I'm building I'm trying to gain
0:42:29one simple change I made was uh my
0:42:33trainer wanted me to use carbolin which
0:42:35is I don't know just another chemical to
0:42:36put in your water
0:42:38>> I do like two tablespoons of maple syrup
0:42:40in my water at the gym
0:42:41>> sure
0:42:42>> and I drink it throughout my workout and
0:42:43my lifts have gotten better and heavier
0:42:45I think like obvious Obviously, not just
0:42:47because of that, but having extra carbs
0:42:49in my system and like somewhat fast
0:42:51carbs in my system has helped me to hit
0:42:53bigger numbers on my lifts.
0:42:55>> Yeah, I had three donuts before my
0:42:572-hour ride this past Sunday and it was
0:42:59one of the best rides I've had since
0:43:00I've been in Austin.
0:43:00>> And it's all because of the donuts.
0:43:02>> Because of the donuts.
0:43:02>> So, like help me with help me understand
0:43:04that because there's like this, you
0:43:05know, whole food like and I know you're
0:43:07one of those guys, right? Whole Foods
0:43:08eat well, but then like you do these
0:43:10Iron Mans, you do this stuff and it's
0:43:12like almost junk food.
0:43:13>> Yeah.
0:43:13>> Like how do we reconcile that?
0:43:14>> Yeah. I mean that fuels high performance
0:43:17and you do it when you're looking for
0:43:19high performance. I don't do that for
0:43:21most of my training sessions. I do it
0:43:23for training sessions where I really
0:43:24want to hit it hard. Like a one hour
0:43:26threshold effort. Um a twohour, you
0:43:29know, bike ride that I can barely
0:43:31sustain the wattage for. You know, I'm
0:43:34I'm definitely fueling with sugar,
0:43:37carbohydrate, just something that is
0:43:39going to spike my glycogen levels
0:43:41because that's going to help with
0:43:42performance. But yeah, I mean that's not
0:43:44how I'm eating on a regular basis. I'm
0:43:47eating mainly a whole food diet. But
0:43:49when you're looking to perform those,
0:43:51there's superfoods for performance. When
0:43:53I'm deep into an Iron Man, I can't wait
0:43:56to have a cup of flat Coca-Cola to spike
0:43:58my blood sugar. You know, that keeps me
0:44:00going.
0:44:00>> And so, how many calories do you think
0:44:02you're consuming in an Iron Man or any
0:44:04other race that you're doing?
0:44:05>> Yeah, in an Iron Man. So, nine and a
0:44:07half hours. I'm consuming
0:44:10600 calories probably an hour. So 5400
0:44:16close to 6,000 calories for an Iron Man.
0:44:18Leadville would be, you know, a little
0:44:20less than that. 5,000 calories. 6 5,000
0:44:235,500 calories.
0:44:24>> And are you loading up before that or
0:44:26the night before, too?
0:44:27>> Yeah, the day before I'm focusing on
0:44:28getting carbohydrate in rice and
0:44:30potatoes. Yeah, I'm not eating junk food
0:44:33the day before. I don't want my stomach
0:44:34to be messed up day of and my stomach
0:44:36will be messed up from that. Like I do
0:44:38not feel very good the next few days
0:44:40after one of those races, but during the
0:44:42race I feel feel great.
0:44:44>> And what's your macros look like on a
0:44:47daily basis?
0:44:48>> I focus on protein is my pretty much the
0:44:52only macro that I loosely pay attention
0:44:54to and trying to get about one gram per
0:44:56pound of body weight. So 180 grams of
0:44:58protein every day. Um, carbs for me are
0:45:02generally around my workouts. I'm doing
0:45:04a smoothie after my workouts. And then
0:45:07fruit, honey. I love I'll do that after
0:45:10workouts. And then at night, rice,
0:45:12potatoes, you know, a healthier carb for
0:45:15later in the evening. And then I love
0:45:17eating meat. So, uh, steaks, burgers
0:45:20I'll have for dinner. And then I'll
0:45:22usually do eggs or a protein powder for
0:45:24breakfast and lunch.
0:45:26>> Cuz there's like macro plans, right?
0:45:28bodybuilders, lifters, people have a fat
0:45:30loss program, right? They hire a coach
0:45:32and it's like dialed in. Yep. To a
0:45:34teant, right? But you're saying, "Okay,
0:45:36I'm doing my protein
0:45:38>> and I generally know the calories I'm
0:45:39taking in and so everything else kind of
0:45:40works itself out."
0:45:41>> Yeah. I could benefit if I tracked it
0:45:43more. I just have never implemented
0:45:45that. And I love eating. Like I don't
0:45:48want to like I don't want to process uh
0:45:51I don't want eating to just become
0:45:53something where it's everything's
0:45:55weighed out and you know I have my you
0:45:58know my grams of protein here. It's if I
0:46:01want to go out to dinner and eat
0:46:02barbecue, I'm going to go out to dinner
0:46:03and eat barbecue and I'm going to get
0:46:04ice cream afterwards. So it's just
0:46:06something I really enjoy. So I've never
0:46:08focused on the macro side of it.
0:46:10>> Yeah.
0:46:10>> And I train so much that for me I'm
0:46:13burning through it. It's more just how
0:46:15do I feel and the timing of it to
0:46:18recover between sessions and also to be
0:46:22recovered enough to hit it hard again
0:46:23the next day.
0:46:23>> Isn't that how most people though
0:46:25approach working out? That's what I've
0:46:26noticed.
0:46:26>> Yeah.
0:46:27>> Is that most people like, "Oh, well, I
0:46:28worked out today so I can eat whatever I
0:46:30want."
0:46:31>> I think so. And you know, it depends
0:46:33what your workout is and my workouts are
0:46:36pretty hard. I'm doing CrossFit training
0:46:37or high rocks training and then you know
0:46:40I'm doing two-hour bike rides so they're
0:46:42long in duration and I'm burning a lot
0:46:43of the calories. You know if you just
0:46:46hit a 20 minute easy jog then you got to
0:46:51be a little more careful of what you're
0:46:53eating because you didn't burn that many
0:46:55calories in doing that. And again, if
0:46:57you're just doing cardio and you're not
0:47:00doing the strength training, then you
0:47:01may not have built the muscle mass
0:47:03that's going to increase your metabolism
0:47:04to be able to just have a higher resting
0:47:06metabolic rate.
0:47:08>> That's right. Yeah. My wife and I early
0:47:10on, and this is back when we were still
0:47:11drinking,
0:47:12>> we would go on like a three mile or sub
0:47:15three mile run and then go grab a couple
0:47:17beers and it was like, oh, we worked
0:47:19out, you know, and of course, we were
0:47:21not we were not in shape. We were we
0:47:23were not who we are today.
0:47:24>> Again, depends how much you're working
0:47:25out. an Iron Man athlete who's training
0:47:2620 hours a week, yeah, they can pretty
0:47:29much get away with eating whatever the
0:47:30hell they want. They're going to burn
0:47:31through the calories. But if you're only
0:47:33exercising 20 or 30 minutes and it's not
0:47:36at a high effort, then, you know, I
0:47:38would be cognizant of of what you're
0:47:40eating.
0:47:40>> The people that I'm communicating with
0:47:43through this podcast, it's really my old
0:47:45self, but it's people that are working
0:47:488, 10, 12 hour days. They're drinking.
0:47:52They're vaping. They're staying up late.
0:47:54they're scrolling on their phones.
0:47:57>> Like, what do you say to those people
0:47:59that are trapped in this distraction
0:48:03economy, this distraction cycle?
0:48:06>> It's really easy to
0:48:09get stuck in your ways and it's very
0:48:13hard to break your ways if you don't
0:48:16replace it with something. So, for me,
0:48:18when I was partying, I had to replace
0:48:21that with another outlet. I had to have
0:48:24that 6 am training session on the books
0:48:27so that I wouldn't go out and get
0:48:29blackout drunk at night because I didn't
0:48:31want to wake up and work out with a
0:48:32hangover. And you know, I went all in on
0:48:36triathlon and over a one-year period, I
0:48:39went all out on drinking, but it was
0:48:41replaced by triathlon. I had a new
0:48:42obsession. So, I think it's important to
0:48:45figure out like what can you replace
0:48:47something with? you know, if you're
0:48:49scrolling late at night, you know, is
0:48:51there a YouTube channel where you can
0:48:52learn something that you enjoy that you
0:48:54start replacing that with? I think it's
0:48:56really tough to break a habit if you
0:48:57don't replace it with something. So,
0:48:59what is something positive you can
0:49:00replace one of those negative behaviors
0:49:02with? And then for me, just like goals,
0:49:05having things that I either have to
0:49:07overcome or I look forward to on the
0:49:09calendar. So, like Leadville for me is
0:49:11something I have to overcome each year.
0:49:12I have to ramp up my biking to a volume
0:49:15that, you know, is it gets
0:49:17uncomfortable. It's not a volume that I
0:49:19would just go out and do recreationally,
0:49:21but I don't want that to be a shitty
0:49:23day. I want to have a good time and I
0:49:25want to feel good out there. So, I train
0:49:27to overcome that obstacle. So, what are
0:49:30those obstacles that you can self-impose
0:49:32in your life that you have to do
0:49:34something every single day so that you
0:49:35can overcome that obstacle?
0:49:37>> Do you use people to help you achieve
0:49:39your goals? Yeah, I mean my friend group
0:49:41for sure having other people around. I
0:49:43mean when I do Leadville I'm messaging
0:49:4530 other people to do it. I'm trying to
0:49:47get other people to do races with me and
0:49:49I have training partners that I hit
0:49:50workouts with. It's definitely easier to
0:49:53do these things if you surround yourself
0:49:54with other people who are doing those
0:49:56things. So again, just like removing the
0:49:58friction and being in an environment
0:50:00that begs you to do whatever it is that
0:50:02you want to do. Like it doesn't beg you
0:50:04to be outside in January in upstate New
0:50:07York when it's gray and snowing outside,
0:50:09but when the sun is shining in Austin in
0:50:11the winter months or in Colorado in the
0:50:14summer months, it's just begging me to
0:50:15be outside playing in the mountains.
0:50:17>> That's right. I think your environment
0:50:18really shapes uh and you can just do
0:50:21things. People forget that we can just
0:50:22do things. Like I just started this
0:50:24podcast because this is what I wanted to
0:50:25do. Yeah. And you can just do it. You
0:50:27can go start mountain biking. You can go
0:50:29start trail running. You can go be the
0:50:31one that invites your friends out to go
0:50:33do a race. Yep.
0:50:34>> Right. A lot of us wait for permission
0:50:35or we're waiting for someone else to do
0:50:37it, but the way that you change your
0:50:38life is you you go do it. You go create
0:50:40it
0:50:40>> 100%. You're part of a lot of brands.
0:50:44>> Like you're like the brand guy and it's
0:50:46it's integrated into all of your
0:50:48content. It's integrated into sort of
0:50:49your lifestyle. At what point did you
0:50:51decide that like you wanted to be the
0:50:54content guy that's associated with
0:50:56brands?
0:50:56>> Yeah, so I fell into this. It started in
0:50:592010 when I downloaded Instagram. I had
0:51:02just started a software company with
0:51:04some business partners who were college
0:51:05kids at Syracuse University. That's an
0:51:07app that they had downloaded. It looked
0:51:09cool. It started out, you know, just
0:51:12posting pictures of whatever I thought
0:51:14would interest my friends, the food I
0:51:15was eating, the cool bike that I just
0:51:17bought. And then, you know, through the
0:51:19Iron Man years from 2010 to 2014, I
0:51:22became a bit more intentional and I
0:51:24started to recognize that people were
0:51:26following my journey and I was inspiring
0:51:28people to sign up for a 5K, to do a
0:51:30triathlon, to sign up for their first
0:51:32half iron man or their first full iron
0:51:34man. And then when I moved to Colorado
0:51:36in 2017, it just made it easier because
0:51:38I was in a place where it was hard not
0:51:40to take a pretty picture being on the
0:51:42top of a mountain and, you know, the sun
0:51:44is shining all the time, perfect
0:51:45lighting. So, I started to teach myself
0:51:48like what made a good photo. And then
0:51:50when stories came out, I had to learn
0:51:52how to create a good video and how to be
0:51:54a better storyteller. And along the way,
0:51:57brands were reaching out, you know,
0:51:58offering to send product. And I was
0:52:00like, "Cool. Yeah, send me that. I love
0:52:01your sunglasses. I'll wear them and take
0:52:03a picture for you and post it. Sure." I
0:52:05wasn't getting paid. I was just doing it
0:52:06because I like the products. I had other
0:52:09businesses that were paying the bills.
0:52:10So, I never had the intention of making
0:52:13money with it. I just had the intention
0:52:14of sharing my lifestyle that was
0:52:17inspiring people to be more active. And
0:52:19then over time, I recognized that given
0:52:22my my past background in building my own
0:52:25businesses and raising money and
0:52:27investing in companies, my network that
0:52:29I had, I had all of these other skill
0:52:32sets that could help an early stage
0:52:33business. And now I had this audience of
0:52:36people that were interested in the
0:52:38products and services that I was using.
0:52:40So, seven years ago, I started, you
0:52:43know, kind of a consulting side to my
0:52:45business of not only the content, but
0:52:48introducing brands to people who can
0:52:50help them, whether it's someone in paid
0:52:52social or someone to help write their
0:52:54newsletter. Um, I have a lot of friends
0:52:56who are wellness influencers,
0:52:58professional athletes. So, helping
0:53:00brands build their ambassador program,
0:53:03product seating. We have people over to
0:53:04our house every night, so I'm literally
0:53:06putting product in people's hands. And
0:53:08then I do a lot of events just passing
0:53:10out product at these events. So over the
0:53:13years I've carved out this niche of he
0:53:16helps build early stage wellness brands
0:53:19and I enjoy doing it because I've always
0:53:21loved I've always loved like branding
0:53:24and I've always been a [ __ ] for the
0:53:27cool new liquid bottle in the grocery
0:53:30store uh buying that you know new
0:53:33beverage and you know now I get to be
0:53:35the person who helps build these early
0:53:38stage brands and creates awareness
0:53:40around them. So, I play where I know I
0:53:43can add the most value.
0:53:45>> What was it like going from I'm just
0:53:46posting pictures on Instagram to oh, I'm
0:53:49like an influencer. I'm this content
0:53:51guy. I am different now.
0:53:54>> 2010 to 2014 is when I was recognized as
0:53:58an elite Iron Man athlete. And then from
0:54:012014 to 2016, I was transitioning from
0:54:04Iron Man to CrossFit. And I felt like I
0:54:06had kind of lost my identity. I didn't
0:54:08really know like who I was anymore to
0:54:11the outside world. And when I moved to
0:54:13Colorado in 2017, you know, that's when
0:54:16I recognized that I was building this
0:54:18personal brand that was really inspiring
0:54:20people. And there were many facets to
0:54:22that. You know, it was like my perfect
0:54:24day and showcasing what my perfect day
0:54:26looked like and being in an environment
0:54:28where I truly thrived and picking up new
0:54:30hobbies like mountain biking that I just
0:54:32absolutely loved. And that's when I
0:54:35really started working with with brands,
0:54:38creating content for them and you know
0:54:40being known as a person to go to for
0:54:42content creation. And then like 2019
0:54:452020 is when I started layering on a lot
0:54:49of these other services, the product
0:54:50seating, uh helping build ambassador
0:54:53programs, helping with brand strategy,
0:54:56helping with paid social strategy,
0:54:59helping with content direction, just
0:55:01kind of being like basically a marketing
0:55:03agency for the brands that come to me.
0:55:05So, it's evolved over the years. And
0:55:09again, like it's involved just as like
0:55:12this is how I can add value. These are
0:55:15all of the things that make me unique in
0:55:16the space. And you know, I'm careful
0:55:19with who I work with. I want to make
0:55:21sure that I can be really valuable. So,
0:55:23you're not going to see me working with
0:55:24like big brands. I work with like
0:55:26earlier stage companies where I know
0:55:28that I can massively move the needle for
0:55:30them because I want to feel valuable. I
0:55:31don't want to just feel like a
0:55:32billboard. I want to feel like I'm
0:55:34really doing something helpful. That's
0:55:35interesting that you say you don't want
0:55:36to feel like a billboard because that's
0:55:37I think a lot of people's fear,
0:55:39>> but when I watch your content and I see
0:55:41it, it doesn't feel like a billboard. I
0:55:43know that like you're advertising these
0:55:45products, but you're using them like I
0:55:47think who you are as a person and what
0:55:49you do really adds to like oh the
0:55:51credibility of of what he's doing,
0:55:53especially as you hit on the brands that
0:55:56become like really successful. Yeah.
0:55:58Right. And actually produce good value
0:55:59for people.
0:56:00>> 100%.
0:56:00>> Yeah. Uh so what are your criteria for
0:56:03like selecting or working with certain
0:56:04brands?
0:56:05>> Yeah, working with a brand is going to
0:56:06be does it fit with my lifestyle? Do I
0:56:09think that I can add value for them? Is
0:56:11it good product market fit? I mean, you
0:56:13know, people see me working with a lot
0:56:14of brands, but for every brand I work
0:56:16with, there's 10 brands where I'm like,
0:56:17"Hey, you know, even though you're
0:56:18willing to pay me a lot of money, like
0:56:20here's a person who you should work with
0:56:22early on. I'm not the perfect product
0:56:24market fit for you. come back to me in
0:56:26two years once you've built, you know, a
0:56:28larger brand, but you should start with
0:56:31someone who is specific to your space.
0:56:34If you're going after women who, you
0:56:37know, uh, want to improve their gut
0:56:39health, like go to a mommy blogger who
0:56:41just talks about gut health supplements,
0:56:43like that's going to be your best
0:56:44product market fit early on. And when
0:56:46you want to expand your your reach, then
0:56:49come back to me and we can talk. But,
0:56:51you know, I I want to make sure that I'm
0:56:53providing value for the brands I work
0:56:54with. So, is it good product market fit?
0:56:56Where is the brand, you know, in their
0:57:00brand awareness um timeline? Um, is it
0:57:03someone I enjoy interacting with? Like,
0:57:05I I want to be friends with the people I
0:57:07do business with. So, I try to work with
0:57:10people where I'm friends with the
0:57:12founder and I've hit a workout with the
0:57:14founder and I've had the founder over
0:57:15for dinner and we've hit a sauna session
0:57:17together. Um, and then investing in a
0:57:20brand that has gotten much more dialed
0:57:23through the years. You know, it used to
0:57:25be like everything seemed like an
0:57:27awesome opportunity to invest in this
0:57:28early stage. This is going to be a
0:57:30unicorn. I'm going to make so much
0:57:31money. And I've learned over the years
0:57:33that those are few and far between. So
0:57:36now oftent times I'm investing in a
0:57:38repeat founder, someone who's already
0:57:40built something, sold it, you know,
0:57:42they're doing something similar, their
0:57:43non-compete is up and they have all of
0:57:45the right connections. They have a
0:57:47sophisticated cap table. They know how
0:57:49to build a business to sell it. So,
0:57:51there's a lot of things that have to go
0:57:53right to get a good return on an early
0:57:56stage investment. And very rarely am I
0:57:59investing pre-revenue unless it it's
0:58:02that scenario of a repeat founder.
0:58:04Usually, I'm investing when I see that
0:58:06they're they just need money for paid
0:58:08social. Like, they have figured out uh
0:58:10customer acquisition. It's a sticky
0:58:13customer. You know, the long-term value
0:58:14of the customer is good. It's uh it's
0:58:17good revenue. It's not they're not just
0:58:19spending a ton of money to get a
0:58:20customer and then the customer drops
0:58:21off. And they just need money to put
0:58:24into more advertising and they're going
0:58:27to keep growing. And they also have this
0:58:30product roadmap where they can leave
0:58:31some skin on the bone for a company that
0:58:33would acquire them that could then take
0:58:35it to retail and you know have master
0:58:38distribution for these other product
0:58:40lines that could be created. And so how
0:58:42would your life be different if you
0:58:44hadn't have started social media?
0:58:46>> I mean 15 years ago I almost bought
0:58:50another insurance agency and that would
0:58:52have just led me down an entirely
0:58:53different path where you know I probably
0:58:55would still be in upstate New York
0:58:57running this insurance agency just suit
0:59:00and tie every day doing something that
0:59:03paid the bills and made me a great
0:59:05living but you know I I would not have
0:59:07found my calling.
0:59:08>> Yeah. And you you talked about social
0:59:09media as leverage too, right? So,
0:59:11>> I would not have built an audience on
0:59:12social media. I've just kind of been
0:59:15going through the motions.
0:59:16>> Would you have these opportunities to
0:59:17invest in?
0:59:18>> God, no. Yeah. Social media brings me so
0:59:21many of the opportunities that I have
0:59:23now. It just puts me in front of so many
0:59:25interesting people.
0:59:26>> And so, what advice can you give to
0:59:28people that are debating on starting
0:59:30their own social media personal brand?
0:59:33>> Uh, go really really niche early on.
0:59:36like be known as the
0:59:40guy who trains cats in their basement.
0:59:44Like just something super super niche.
0:59:47Yeah,
0:59:48>> super niche. You know, the more unique
0:59:50the better. I mean now like everyone is
0:59:52putting out content. So you got to
0:59:54figure out how to stop someone's thumb.
0:59:56So the more unique, the more polarizing,
0:59:59the more controversial you can be, the
1:00:02better. And pick a lane. Like for me, my
1:00:04lane is wellness and inspiration. You
1:00:07know, that's what I'm posting content
1:00:08around and I'm posting it around my
1:00:10lifestyle. I'm doing something that I
1:00:12can just replicate day in and day out
1:00:14just by being me. Um because I I I love
1:00:17my life. I love the things I do every
1:00:19day and I don't want to do something
1:00:20outside of like how I want to live my
1:00:23life every day. So that's why I've
1:00:24picked the lane that I'm in. But yeah,
1:00:26you need to own a lane. You need to
1:00:28figure out like what you can be known
1:00:30for and what is something that you want
1:00:32to do for five ten years. Like it it's
1:00:35going to take some time. It's very very
1:00:37rare to have overnight success. But the
1:00:40one nice thing is content is king now.
1:00:44Content over accolades. Um if you can
1:00:46produce really good content, that is
1:00:49what the algorithm is favoring right
1:00:50now.
1:00:50>> Yeah. When you say really good content,
1:00:52what do you mean?
1:00:53>> Highly engaging, you know, content that
1:00:55people want to share. content that
1:00:58people are going to comment on, content
1:01:00that people are going to save, content
1:01:02that people are going to watch all the
1:01:04way through, um, storytelling,
1:01:07sharing a journey you're on. There's
1:01:10this guy who goes off into the woods
1:01:11every single day and tries to lift this
1:01:13stump over his head. He's been doing it
1:01:15for like three years and hasn't been
1:01:16able to get the stump over his head and
1:01:18he has like half a million followers
1:01:20just tuning in to whether he can get the
1:01:21stump over his head. So, you know,
1:01:23that's an example of sharing a journey
1:01:26that you're on. People love journeys and
1:01:28like become a good storyteller. That's
1:01:30one of the reasons why I love going on
1:01:32podcasts because I'm not thinking about
1:01:34my life 15 years ago. I'm very much in
1:01:36the moment and thinking about, you know,
1:01:38what's what's ahead. But so many of the
1:01:41stories that come out are from going on
1:01:43podcasts where it jogs my memory to be
1:01:46like, [ __ ] I should talk about, you
1:01:47know, why I stopped drinking alcohol and
1:01:49what that looked like for me. So get
1:01:51really good at storytelling because I
1:01:53think that is going to differentiate
1:01:57people from people and people from AI is
1:01:59if you're a good storyteller.
1:02:01>> What advice do you have for people that
1:02:02struggle with perfectionism, especially
1:02:04around content creation and getting
1:02:06started and personal brand?
1:02:07>> I mean I execute. I'm like a bull in a
1:02:09china shop. So I execute to a fault. I
1:02:12probably would be better if I was
1:02:13somewhere more in the middle between
1:02:15perfectionism and execution. But yeah,
1:02:19again, starting is the hardest part. So
1:02:22like if you just start and get
1:02:24consistent, you're going to get good at
1:02:26it. Very few people are good at
1:02:28something until they've done it for a
1:02:30while. So you have to start somewhere.
1:02:33You know, you might be a fool early on,
1:02:35but eventually if you keep doing it,
1:02:37you'll get to a place where you're
1:02:38pretty good at it. Like right now,
1:02:39that's where I am with my espresso
1:02:41machine. You know, it's [ __ ] spraying
1:02:43water out and you know, my espresso
1:02:46every third one tastes decent. You know,
1:02:49I kind of look like a fool right now,
1:02:51but I'm going to keep doing it until
1:02:52nine out of 10 are amazing. And the only
1:02:55way to get there is by doing it and
1:02:57learning and doing it and learning and
1:03:00doing it and learning.
1:03:01>> Yeah, we we humans learn by doing and we
1:03:03forget that because we have so much
1:03:04information available in front of us.
1:03:06But you can't learn how to ride a bike
1:03:08by reading about how to ride a bike.
1:03:10Exactly. you you have to do and the like
1:03:14new content creators can take care in
1:03:16the fact that nobody's watching in the
1:03:19beginning.
1:03:20>> Yeah.
1:03:20>> Right. So, you can suck in the beginning
1:03:22and nobody's watching except for the
1:03:23people that want to see you succeed or
1:03:24the people that are hating on you but
1:03:26they're or they're not saying anything.
1:03:27But you get to get better over time and
1:03:29that will actually attract people into
1:03:31your world.
1:03:31>> Yep.
1:03:31>> Let me ask you about the alcohol. How
1:03:33how many years sober are you? Uh, I
1:03:36might have a glass of wine a year. You
1:03:39know, if I'm in Napa Valley on a wine
1:03:42tour, I'm going to try some really nice
1:03:44wine. So, you know, to say that I just
1:03:46went cold turkey would be a lie, but I
1:03:49very rarely drink. I only do it in a
1:03:52scenario like that. A champagne toast at
1:03:54a wedding for a great friend. I'm going
1:03:55to have a little champagne. Um,
1:03:58for me it was
1:04:012009, 2010, 2011 during that like 2-year
1:04:06period where I just kind of slowly went
1:04:11from drinking more, exercising less to
1:04:15exercising more, drinking less to
1:04:18exercising at a very high level and
1:04:20barely ever drinking. and I just didn't
1:04:23see the benefits from drinking anymore.
1:04:26And I was getting massive benefits from
1:04:29the exercise. So, it was a pretty easy
1:04:32equation to be like, "Okay, this is fun,
1:04:35but it comes with massive consequences,
1:04:38hangovers, and uh compromised
1:04:41relationships and, you know, lacking
1:04:44mental clarity and getting poor sleep
1:04:47and having poor energy. and I do this
1:04:50and I feel like the best version of
1:04:52myself, I have tons of energy, I sleep
1:04:54well, I make better decisions. All
1:04:56right, I'm going to pour everything into
1:04:58this cup over here. So, yeah, unless
1:05:01it's going to greatly enhance the
1:05:03experience, I just I don't partake at
1:05:05all. And I don't do it as a hobby.
1:05:07Again, it's in a scenario where it's
1:05:10going to greatly enhance the experience
1:05:12or it's just like a commonality to do
1:05:14it. like you cheers at a wedding, you
1:05:16have a little bit of champagne. You
1:05:18know, I'm not in a place where I'm going
1:05:21to have 14 glasses of champagne after
1:05:23just having a a sip of champagne now.
1:05:26>> So, why do people still drink?
1:05:27>> Well, I mean, there's a social component
1:05:29to it, obviously, but I found that, you
1:05:32know, for me, wellness is my social
1:05:34lubricant. Having people come over to
1:05:35sauna is a social lubricant. So, I found
1:05:38other ways to to have conversations with
1:05:41people, to build community, to meet new
1:05:43people. I think a lot of people do it to
1:05:46get into a more vulnerable state and to
1:05:48meet people. So figuring out ways where
1:05:50you can get that, that's why run clubs
1:05:51are becoming so popular right now. You
1:05:54know, people are using it for dating.
1:05:55They're going there, they're meeting
1:05:56their significant others. So what are
1:05:58these other outlets where you can meet
1:06:00people, you can socialize, and there
1:06:03aren't consequences that come with it.
1:06:05>> You're someone that I see as just being
1:06:07completely and utterly like okay. not
1:06:10just okay, but focused on who they want
1:06:12to be, who they're being, how they're
1:06:14showing up, connected, fulfilled,
1:06:18and you transform your entire life from
1:06:21someone that was not that, someone that
1:06:22was making money on on all accounts and
1:06:25successful on the outside, but you
1:06:28become this person that is just living
1:06:30the life that they want to live. And my
1:06:33experience for most people in this world
1:06:35is that they don't have access to that
1:06:37level of confidence or self-worth and
1:06:40that they're chasing something and
1:06:42actually afraid of what it means to be
1:06:45themselves.
1:06:46>> Mhm.
1:06:47>> What is your opinion on people's own
1:06:51fear of doing the thing that they truly
1:06:54want to do? I think many of us are
1:06:56living for the public perception of
1:06:59success as opposed to wh do we really
1:07:03feel fulfilled and until you tinker
1:07:08enough with other things you won't
1:07:10really know that and you know I consider
1:07:13those Iron Man gears when I was going on
1:07:16two-hour runs and five hour bike rides
1:07:18as my psychedelic experience I just had
1:07:20a lot of time alone to think and to
1:07:23really like take a step back instead of
1:07:26just like executing every day going
1:07:28through the motions, take a step back
1:07:30and like see my life almost as an
1:07:34outsider to recognize like what I wanted
1:07:36my life to actually be like and what
1:07:39things I wanted to do every day where I
1:07:42really felt good and I felt authentic
1:07:45and I felt I just was waking up with
1:07:47purpose. like, you know, couldn't wait
1:07:49to hit that hard bike ride or that long
1:07:52run to progress in something. So, you
1:07:54know, I I think it's just taking a step
1:07:56back, reflecting, and figuring out
1:07:59whether you're just going through the
1:08:00motions and what are some other things
1:08:02that you could try or I mean, the beauty
1:08:05and curse of social media is we can see
1:08:07so many people's lives. So, if there's
1:08:09someone else out there whose life you
1:08:12think is better than yours, you know,
1:08:14try doing some of the things they're
1:08:15doing and see if maybe some of the the
1:08:18things they're doing are things that you
1:08:19need to implement in your life and then
1:08:21start pairing back in those things where
1:08:23you're just not present. You don't feel
1:08:25like you're getting value or giving
1:08:26value.
1:08:27>> And that's exactly what I did and it
1:08:28changed my life. I I found people on
1:08:30social media that I resonated with and
1:08:33were doing things that I wanted to do at
1:08:35the level that I wanted to do them. And
1:08:38part of that I didn't even realize at
1:08:39the time because there was different
1:08:40components of what they were doing.
1:08:42>> And I got around them. I got in their
1:08:44communities. I put myself into these
1:08:46rooms that I didn't feel like I
1:08:47initially deserved to be in. I added as
1:08:49much value as I could. And I implemented
1:08:51the things that they said to do.
1:08:52>> Mh.
1:08:53>> And my life started to change.
1:08:54>> It's amazing.
1:08:54>> And my self worth started to increase.
1:08:56And my ability to do what you said, look
1:08:57at myself from the outside. Kind of like
1:08:59if a camera was following you around.
1:09:01Yeah.
1:09:01>> Right. Am I living the life and being
1:09:03authentic to myself and what I want? And
1:09:05there was a lot of nos in there. There
1:09:06was a lot of no Cassidy, you're not
1:09:08doing that. And it's like, okay, well,
1:09:10let me go [ __ ] do it then. And it was
1:09:12a level of commitment to this is going
1:09:14to take me five, 10 years to really go
1:09:18where I want to go. And I'm 100% okay
1:09:20with that because, and tell me if this
1:09:22is true for you, too. I don't have all
1:09:24the results that I want right now.
1:09:26>> I don't have the accolades. I don't have
1:09:28the money or whatever I don't have. And
1:09:29I'm not focused on that. But I made the
1:09:31decision to go all in on myself and I
1:09:33made the decision to do what I want to
1:09:34do every day. And that means that I'm
1:09:36living in that life right now
1:09:39>> and I'm feeling that right now and I'm
1:09:41feeling the fulfillment right now. And
1:09:43so people that
1:09:44>> want something at the very end, what I
1:09:47want to tell them is that as soon as you
1:09:48make that decision and you take the
1:09:50actions in that direction, you feel the
1:09:53effects of living those decisions almost
1:09:56immediately.
1:09:56>> Yeah, I love that. Well, I feel like so
1:09:58many people, they, you know, chase this
1:10:00retirement goal. They chase this nest
1:10:03egg they want to have, and then when
1:10:04they get there, they're like, "Oh, this
1:10:06isn't all that it's cracked up to be,
1:10:07and I wasted 10 years of not enjoying
1:10:10what I was doing every day to get to
1:10:11this place where you don't really know
1:10:13if there's gold at the end of the
1:10:15rainbow." So, I think it's so important
1:10:17to chase perfect days rather than
1:10:19chasing this outcome down the road. I
1:10:21mean, I've been to a lot of high places,
1:10:23and that high place was not nearly as
1:10:27satisfying as I thought it was going to
1:10:29be. It was the process to get there that
1:10:30was satisfying.
1:10:31>> Yeah. There's that old adage, it's not
1:10:33the destination, it's the journey.
1:10:34>> Exactly.
1:10:35>> When you're doing what you want, when
1:10:36you've committed yourself, it's so true.
1:10:39And it took me I'm 39 years old right
1:10:42now. took me the last two years
1:10:44essentially to get out of that life of
1:10:47living for others and saying yes to
1:10:48others to saying yes to myself and truly
1:10:50understanding what it means to be
1:10:52grateful and thankful for the journey
1:10:54and the people and the experiences and
1:10:56the training and the the you know the
1:10:58quote unquote failures
1:11:00>> because that's what this life is is your
1:11:03ability to like do what you want to do
1:11:05and be the person that you want to be
1:11:06but be so honest with yourself about
1:11:09what it is and Eric I think you're a
1:11:10living embodiment of that This is this
1:11:12is my life's purpose is to be a
1:11:14permission slip for other people to go
1:11:16live their true purpose.
1:11:17>> I love that.
1:11:17>> And I think you're an embodiment of
1:11:19exactly that and I thank you so much for
1:11:21being here today. Where can people find
1:11:22you? How can they get in touch with you
1:11:24and work with you?
1:11:25>> Yep. Just my name on Instagram, my name
1:11:27on YouTube, errikenman.com.
1:11:30And then if you want to get involved in
1:11:31any of the events that we have coming
1:11:33up, we have uh founderssonly.comclub
1:11:36which is a community for entrepreneurs,
1:11:39creators, and investors. We do four
1:11:41wellness retreats a year and we have an
1:11:43online component to that as well. And
1:11:44then the world's toughest mile if you
1:11:46want to come out and test yourself
1:11:48physically. The world's toughest mile is
1:11:51one lap on a track of burpee bra jumps,
1:11:54one lap lunge, one lap bear crawl, one
1:11:56lap run. It's accessible but it's hard.
1:11:59And we are hosting the first one March
1:12:0420th or no February 20th here in Austin.
1:12:08I think that's a Saturday. the
1:12:09world'smile.com is the website, but
1:12:12we're going to have saunas and uh ice
1:12:15baths and vendors and a DJ and all sorts
1:12:19of like fun activities on the infield.
1:12:21So, just going to be like a 4hour
1:12:22wellness party.
1:12:23>> Yeah, cuz you can just do things. Yep.
1:12:26>> And I love this. I'll be there.
1:12:27>> Awesome. All right. Thanks for having
1:12:28me,
1:12:29>> Eric. This is great. Thank you so much.
1:12:30And as always, everybody, I appreciate
1:12:31you. I love you. This has been for your
1:12:33own good. Peace.
The systems behind these conversations — the deal underwriting, the tax strategy, the operators doing it live — are in Escape Velocity.